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Originally Posted by Fat Banryu
...ow, my head... Deja vu. =___=
I say this because this looks strikingly like the Sub-SD-Liechi set I first suggested in place of the DD set, which was basically the same as what you're suggesting and which people said they didn't like.
I know you're not the one who said that, but I kind of want to tell you all to make up your minds, LOL. What I'll probably just do is list Sub-Swords Dance with Punch and Claw as a separate set, and just do the DD+3 attacks like you suggested.
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DD Liechi =/= SD Salac. DD liechi has the ability to boost its Speed and set up a Substitute that way. SD does not give you the opportunity to sweep in the same respect.
Splitting them up into two DD sets would be good. I'd stay away from Swords Dance; it's generally inferior unless you're trying to use a wall breaker (which you're not).
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Originally Posted by Fat Banryu
I don't think you're being rude and I understand, as I said I'm not the best at articulating my intetion most of the time.
Also, I can totally prove why Charmander is better.
I'm glad you understand, because I think I'm going to have to do it agian -_
For one thing, you have to look at the advantages of Overheat and Eruption against each other. Advantages in blue, disadvantages in red.
Eruption - 150 BP, 100 acc.
- BP drops to ~117 after switching into SR once (IE, inferior to Fire Blast after one switchin to SR,)
-> essentially requires a Spinner, BP still affected by priority
Overheat - 140 BP, 90 acc. - Sp. Atk. drop usage (somewhat fixed by Scarf strategy)
- difference in BP between Overheat and Eruption negligible (I don't have any calcs to back this up as of now, but I can change that if people aren't convinced.)
My argument here is basically that STAB Overheat is simply the superior move as far as Scarf sets are concerned, since STAB Eruption is too heavily affected by Stealth Rock damage. Of course, that doesn't mean Charmander is better because it gets Overheat, which all Fire-types do, but that DOES mean that Cyndaquil is not better because it gets Eruption (in other words, there's no reason at all to use him. -.- Sorry, Quil. D: ) |
You do know that 117 base power after Stealth Rock (with 100% accuracy) is still better than Overheat right? Not to mention, you start with Cyndaquil at 100% HP meaning it will fair much better than Charmander who relies on a move that's absurdly easy to set up on. Dratini, Bagon, and Krabby will seriously have no trouble setting up on Charmander, while they are all 2HKOed by Cyndaquil's Eruption.
Magby literally 100% outclasses Choice Charmander. Cyndaquil only has hope because of Eruption.
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Originally Posted by Fat Banryu
Why Charmander IS better / unique as a Fire-type Scarfer is that it gets Rock Slide, and is the only Fire-type to do so (...right?). Its Rock Slide will OHKO Houndour switchins, and also hits both Ponyta and Mantyke supereffectively, which Break Break / HP Grass (respectively) do not. This is important for Charmander as a Scarfer because it allows it to remove its potential counters / enemy switchins, leaving it open to sweep with its Fire STAB when switching back in later.
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Rock Slide doesn't OHKO Ponyta or Mantyke with your low Atk investment. This will result in them easily OHKOing you. Otherwise, you're just 2HKOing them on the switch, Cyndaquil also 2HKOes Ponyta and Mantyke.
Eruption, Hidden Power Rock, Double Kick/Reversal, and hit everything that's relevant that Charmander would with Rock Slide and without ThunderPunch.
Additionally, without Eruption, Magby outclasses Charmander.
With a moveset of: Overheat, Hidden Power Grass, Cross Chop, and ThunderPunch, this set is directly outclassed. This is the main point. Because Charmander does not have Eruption, it is outclassed by Magby.
So, Cyndaquil hits harder with Eruption, Magby hits harder with physical coverage moves, what relevant advantage does Charmander have?
It's a lose-lose situation. As soon as you say "Eruption doesn't matter", Magby outclasses it. If you say "Eruption does matter", Cyndaquil outclasses it.
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Originally Posted by Fat Banryu
It's true that Magby does not get those moves, but Charmander does get boosting moves, which Magby can't brag of. That's basically it, of course.
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Ok so if that's it, why are you proposing a Scarf set?