[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by Fat Borat

blagh blagh blagh everything "walls" zam

Again, why are you sending in Alakazam into a Starmie who you know is using Rapid Spin? Isn't that a huge DRUM NOW sign, or SUP EXPLOSION SETUP, or GENGAR, y'know, Pokemon that are known to kill stuff.

I think you guys need to keep in mind that teams aren't made up of infinite pokémon and a person isn't liable to be carrying any particular one on their team. The only pokémon you can even begin to assume "should" be on every team is Snorlax. (That's not the case in reality either, but...) Even then, it doesn't have to be Drumlax and there's a large difference between, say, LK Drumlax, standard Curselax, and Selfdestructors. e.g. Continuing off the example I provided, I can't switch Gengar into Starmie's Rapid Spin if I don't have Gengar on my team, or if I already blew it up on Raikou, or Starmie has Psychic... Also, while Alakazam takes slightly above-average damage even from special attacks, Recover is a more powerful recovery move than Rest. Threatening a 3HKO prevents Rest from being effective and even a 4HKO forces a Rest loop, where 'Zam can take upwards of 50% before its Recover loop is broken (and threatens to be OHKOed by a crit).

You can theorymon that anything is useless if you try hard enough but it doesn't necessarily carry over to reality. Gee, what's so good about Zapdos when all it does is hit Raikou switch-ins for 15% all day and gets just as raped by Snorlax as every other special attacker? (No, Thunder doesn't stop Snorlax from raping Zapdos. It's still a borderline 4HKO with Leftovers, is less damaging over time than Tbolt considering accuracy, and is also unreliable when you otherwise just need to hit your Electric move.) Does Suicune even DO anything besides not-die? It has no utilitarian use, besides absorbing sleep with a Sleep Talk set (which theoretically anything can do), and it's not an offensive threat to anything except Grounds and T-Tar. Are Jynx and Gengar only threats because of a sleep move and threatening an alternative means of killing?

And I still don't know where you get the idea that Substitute blocks Rapid Spin. Even ignoring that Starmie is going to Spin before Sub even goes up (on the switch or going first next turn), Substitute does not prevent Rapid Spin from removing Spikes. ;/ Hell, it even removes Leech Seed if Starmie has the cajones to not switch, although it won't make any progress on Eggy's Leftovers only getting to Surf every 3-4 turns.

And you, being one of the few people that was actually able to run out of PP with zam before it dying should know that.

I'm not sure how this counts as criticism at all. Am I not pretty good if I can actually manage to keep an Alakazam alive, a pokémon who supposedly gets whooped by everything ever, until it runs out of attacking PP? *shrug* What it tells me is that Alakazam is amazing at forcing switches and hurts stuff. Maybe the fact I use Spikes makes a difference? :P

Originally Posted by Fat Jorgen

"How many four-attack sweepers exist in GSC? Unless you count Machamp, who usually carries Curse, and Nidoking..."

There's also Ttar, who obviously rips 'Zam to shreds.

Fair enough. Do keep in mind that Pursuit is not a straight-up answer to 'Zam, though, and it can freely switch out against anything else. (Likewise, it's not even guaranteed to remove Gengar, who can put it to sleep or carry Dynamicpunch.) Like Machamp, T-Tar is also expected to carry Curse reasonably often.

"The only part where speed plays a factor here is that it gets the first Encore on anything (bar Jolteon), but Encore has already been mentioned. Encore, ultimately, is just a phazing move, one that *sometimes* avoids damage if used properly. I know that, you know that, we all know that. Let's not hype it up."

"Potentially usable, but that usability is compromised if your opponent is capable of making a few key predictions and hitting Zam with an attack as it comes in."

Well, what's wrong with that? The fact that it avoids damage is a big plus, as it makes Alakazam a more powerful threat in that regard compared to something like Skarmory or Suicune. Okay, it can't switch into Snorlax's Body Slam worth a crap. It also doesn't have to eat a Body Slam if it switches in on Curse or anything else... thereby encouraging Snorlax to just keep spamming Body Slam, else Alakazam might switch in and force it out. The constant threat forces the opponent to adjust their play for the worse, a large advantage which a traditional pseudohazer just can't do. (i.e. Two unboosted Body Slams > one +1 BS >>>>>>> nothing.) It's also much better against some things you might otherwise want a pseudohazer for, such as "Thundermissy" (but not Steelix!), sleep-trappers or Curse-phazers.

Originally Posted by Fat Borat

Thunder Wave was lost through meta gaming. ... Also, teams began to focus specifically on Toxic as the primary status, random shit starting running fire moves to propagate that.

It's a real shame, too. Paralysis is far, far better than shitty poison. Toxic is a one-time force switch that otherwise does nearly insignificant damage (once it's converted to regular PSN) in exchange for protection against worse status effects. I guess it can't hurt if you're not using other status on your team but most teams carry sleep in some capacity and Body Slam is largely preferred over Return / Frustration / D-E exactly because the benefit of PAR usually outweighs the minor extra damage. Actually, it can hurt, because it's wasting a moveslot... ;/

With regard to T-Wave specifically, though, it's because T-Wave isn't as omnipresent as it is in RBY. GSC pokémon can't use the old TM at all and even some of the old guard lose it as an incompatibility with breeding moves. Toxic remains a TM and basically everything learns it, so no problem there.