Smogon Community - View Single Post - Gen 2 Should Snorlax count as Uber in GSC?

Borat · Aug 14th, 2010, 3:21:27 PM

I'm not sure you understand Snorlax entirely to deny such a statement. I'm also not sure what "modern day characteristics" alludes to, but that sounds like a pretty bogus term ultimately holding no significance. And considering you sure as hell weren't there to witness the Celebi ban, and seeing that I merely got a synopsis of the ban from the player that caused it, as well as over 3 years experience playing in a meta with it, I'd say I know a bit more than you about "why Celebi was considered Uber to begin with". Unless you're referring to pre-Smogon days, the very very early years, in which case, the ban was simple: semantics. #251 automatically put it in uber contention, along with #150, #151, #249, and #250.

Killing stuff was incredibly difficult in GSC, your point? Suggesting Houndoom (and I hate how you're referring to "then" as if it was so long ago) with Fire Blast as one of the best Celebi "counters" shows a pretty lack of understanding for GSC. You can't just blindly attack in GSC and hope to get away with it. Fire Blast isn't hitting anything but Tyranitar/Snorlax, and the occasional Raikou or something. This isn't adv, where shit falls in 1-2 nve hits. And using your "roles" analogy, Snorlax is the only pokemon in GSC that fits EVERY role, defensive (both physical and special), offensive, support, everything. (PS: Shouldn't support and defensive ALWAYS be tied together? Just saying, that's the case with GSC anyway, except BP-ers. If you're defensive, you're either using some inconsequential move that probably isn't intended to kill anything, or you're just "supporting" the team in its quest to fight another day by filling that defensive gap, aka not die.).

Ultimately, the argument DOESN'T boil down to "who's better" as the primary reason to suggest a ban. It could bring to attention a certain pokemon, but it's the overall effect on the metagame that matters. Because of that, this isn't a plea to unban Celebi/Ho-oh or anything, despite Snorlax being better than both of them. Ho-oh would be interesting though.

Aug 14th, 2010, 3:21:27 PM	#20
Borat Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 723	I'm not sure you understand Snorlax entirely to deny such a statement. I'm also not sure what "modern day characteristics" alludes to, but that sounds like a pretty bogus term ultimately holding no significance. And considering you sure as hell weren't there to witness the Celebi ban, and seeing that I merely got a synopsis of the ban from the player that caused it, as well as over 3 years experience playing in a meta with it, I'd say I know a bit more than you about "why Celebi was considered Uber to begin with". Unless you're referring to pre-Smogon days, the very very early years, in which case, the ban was simple: semantics. #251 automatically put it in uber contention, along with #150, #151, #249, and #250. Killing stuff was incredibly difficult in GSC, your point? Suggesting Houndoom (and I hate how you're referring to "then" as if it was so long ago) with Fire Blast as one of the best Celebi "counters" shows a pretty lack of understanding for GSC. You can't just blindly attack in GSC and hope to get away with it. Fire Blast isn't hitting anything but Tyranitar/Snorlax, and the occasional Raikou or something. This isn't adv, where shit falls in 1-2 nve hits. And using your "roles" analogy, Snorlax is the only pokemon in GSC that fits EVERY role, defensive (both physical and special), offensive, support, everything. (PS: Shouldn't support and defensive ALWAYS be tied together? Just saying, that's the case with GSC anyway, except BP-ers. If you're defensive, you're either using some inconsequential move that probably isn't intended to kill anything, or you're just "supporting" the team in its quest to fight another day by filling that defensive gap, aka not die.). Ultimately, the argument DOESN'T boil down to "who's better" as the primary reason to suggest a ban. It could bring to attention a certain pokemon, but it's the overall effect on the metagame that matters. Because of that, this isn't a plea to unban Celebi/Ho-oh or anything, despite Snorlax being better than both of them. Ho-oh would be interesting though. Last edited by Borat; Aug 14th, 2010 at 3:34:41 PM.