[Borat]

recall that ViL's TSS team was anchored by Celebi.

He asked, he shall receive. And he did.

the problem with a lot of stall/defensive teams is the fact that they just don't have the offensive capabilities to be able to take out other teams.

This isn't true. It's pretty damn difficult for a stall to take out another stall, but a stall should have no problems taking out anything quicker (anything non-stall).

would Zapdos and Raikou "run rampant"? I highly doubt it. I highly doubt it. that's taking speculation a little too far.

As if they hadn't already. Point being, Raikou becomes the premier special wall in GSC (blissey still sucking), boosting its popularity. Zapdos loses one of its biggest threats (but it still won't get past Raikou, granted, statistically, Raikou shouldn't be able to KO Zapdos all that often either). Just saying, both of them will be a hell of a lot better than they already are, which is already pretty fucking good.

but you gave me the impression that Hypnomissy should still be banned.
...
then let Hypnomissy in too

Ultimately, the argument DOESN'T boil down to "who's better" as the primary reason to suggest a ban. It could bring to attention a certain pokemon, but it's the overall effect on the metagame that matters. Because of that, this isn't a plea to unban Celebi/Ho-oh or anything, despite Snorlax being better than both of them.

I assume that's what you meant by "posted this without knowledge of the above post".

Ho-oh does make things interesting though, like I said, adds a defensive and offensive flair to things. It's not about making the metagame more "offensive-oriented", it's achieving that balance where both tempos can be used effectively. Offense is nice to play, but it's pretty stupid if [over] half the team just explodes resulting in a Curselax/Vaporeon ending (sexual innuendo?). That's not fun, not to me; there's hardly any strategy/skill in that. It could be good for kicks once in a while, but as being one of the best formats for a team? Hardly. Stalls have the slight upper hand versus Explosion, no other type of team does. But where are the stalls today?

If anything, I'm seeing that there needs to be more stall teams to fix the TOO offensive minded metagame. That's to say, what used to be intricately designed offense based on beating stalls are now mindless offense based on beating other offensive teams. Because stalls have all but died out, that means these "fail" (see definition in my 2 year old thread) teams are being undeservingly rewarded for a poorly balanced metagame. Shit like cursepgon2, curselax, curserhydon... doesn't work at all versus a stall team. But against another offensive team? You bet. Stalls need to restore that balance. Good offense > stall > bad offense > good offense etc.