[trickroom]

the title of this thread is not what pokemon to use in a stall team, its what pokemon to wall ubers with. i am by no means saying giratina is a force to be reckoned with in ubers that is going to wall entire teams (though i think that it is more of a threat to most teams than lugia). I was using giratina as an example of something that fills the same role as lugia, but brings more utility. Instead of saying things like "you said giratina is sooo good" (which i did say) please give me credible reasons to use lugia over giratina, I have no illusions about giratina, it is limited, but my point in my post was that giratina is not so limited as lugia.

How does Giratina share the same role as Lugia? Giratina loses to all the Dragon sweepers whereas Lugia stops Rayquaza, Garchomp, Palkia and other Dragon types. Using Giratina means you lose to pretty much any Dragon attacker. Lugia can also give team support to the entire team with screens, ask Giratina to do that. How does Giratina threaten other teams more than Lugia? It's not like Giratina can hurt much things. Also, most offensive teams carry Dragon sweepers who can easily kill Giratina but not Lugia.

forry also sets up on lugia, your argument is stupid, at least my entry hazards will still be up when forry starts setting up on me, yours will just be spun away. We both now that if you reply to this your going to say that you can switch out forry to a spin blocker, thats a fine thing to say, but please for the present lets not assume what we are using to support a specific wall and lets let the walls stand alone.

Ok, fine Forretress sets up on Lugia. You said Giratina can spin block which is good but as a spin blocker you don't want to get set up on something you are suppose to block. All I want to say here is Giratina sucks as a spin blocker but do better as a wall. Anyway that's irrelevant with the Lugia topic here. Also, Lugia can drop Whirlwind + Ice Beam for Dragon Tail and Weather Ball. Thanks to Roost, Lugia does not need to use the inefficient Resttalk. Weather Ball or Hidden Power Fire in the sun will kill Forretress. Giratina cannot drop any attack because it is forced to use Rest and Sleep Talk.

again, this is not a thread to discuss team styles, this paragraph only highlights the limitedness of lugia as in when you said lugia was weak.

Limitedness? Lugia can phaze like a champ and heal off easily. That's everything you want from a wall. Lugia can also set up screens and do something instead of just sitting there Resting like Giratina lol. Burn? Since stall is used with Toxic Spikes, good luck Burning non Steel things. Also Giratina cannot fit in non stall teams and is even worse than Lugia.

do people even use chomp, anymore, regardless, of whether they do or do not, prediction (that is what i interpret "surprise blissey" to mean) is a failed argument because if you can surprise using prediction, i can predict your surprises to my advantage just as easily.

Really? It makes Chansey having to switch in and out less or eases prediction. Also Reshiram can 2HKO Blissey but not Chansey. And yeah, Garchomp is still fairly common with its Scarf set, probably because it can defeat and outspeeds most offfensive Dragons. It also allows Chansey to stay in on Support Groudon's Earthquake and Toxic it without the risks of getting 2HKOed.

Functionally, steel arceus can come in on dialga, on the popular choiced palkia, on resisted moves from slower pokemon, and on most dragon types. though when it does decide to boost it is a boosting tank, it can also function as a wall when appropriate through the standard procedure of will o wisp +recover. It should not be disqualified just because it is versatile

Come in on Dialga? Enjoy a Fire Blast to the face. Unless it's raining you do not want to take that. Steel Arceus cannot hurt Dialga either who will just Roar you out. Also you set up on Palkia stucked on Dragon moves only. Fire Blast, Surf will hit you for large damage if you switch in on it without any Calm Minds. Thunder will paralyse you and Steel Arceus will not want it's Speed reduced to less than Forretress's.

lol heracross, is this supposed to be a serious discussion

Heracross is still seen in Ubers because it can revenge kill a lot of things. Yes, this is a serious discussion. In fact, Heracross is added to the Ubers threat list.

Icyman also highlighted Lugia's advantage over other walls, so do I need to expand on it?

Fireburn, sorry for not adding Ho-Oh in the poll :P Most of the walls are physical walls, but Ho-Oh can BURN ALL. Ho-Oh cannot come in on physical threats in the end but it does walls a lot so I admit I forgotten to add it X__X. Unlike Dialga, Ho-Oh can spread burns, much Specially bulkier, stops a lot of threats and has Roost or Recover to regain health so it definitely suits the poll.

About Rockceus, you overrated it a bit :(

Fightceus and Groundceus both beat Rockceus in a Calm Mind War. Blissey and Chansey can come in take anything and Toxic Rock Arceus to death. Groudon can still beat Rock Arceus if it has Swords Dance. +2 LO Earthquake still 2HKOes through burn.