[Hipmonlee]

@waterwizard
Ok, then consider this from smogons point of view where BL is not a playable tier. If BL is balanced, the correct name for it should be UU.

I did play a few games. I will tell you about my team.

It was:
Electabuzz (necessary on all teams)
Vaporeon (ridiculously overpowered, beats Electabuzz one on one, as well as basically every other pokemon)
Poliwrath (incredible sweeper, and can sleep)
Golduck (even better sweeper than Poliwrath)
Raticate (used because it can kill Golducks, Vaporeons and Poliwraths in one sleep), Kabutops (I like Kabutops - I like Omastar more tbh, but it is bad against Poli, Golduck and Vap)

I dont know if mimic is glitched on NB, but the one in 4 chance of getting amnesia is actually just bad. Not to mention it is slower than Golduck and ties Poli, so you probably have to take two amnesia boosted surfs before you can use amnesia. And the issue I really have is the water type centralisation forces it too often into a freeze war. If you can counter waters with more waters, you arent really solving the problem. Sure you could use Dewgong instead of Vaporeon, but really, that's like using Rhydon instead of Golem.

Really if you arent using three water types in a UU team, then I think you are doing something pretty silly. In light of this, I am not surprised Charizard isnt overbalancing.

Pinsir is definitely top tier UU as far as I can tell, the only thing that would make it more of a threat than the waters is if there are three waters on everybodies team.

Tangela is top tier too, but really that is more as an Electabuzz counter and status spreader. It just doesnt do enough damage.

This almost sounds like a fait accompli, as though you've made a unilateral decision and this is merely a notification. :D Hopefully I'm just misreading/misinterpreting your tone.

Eh, I am going to listen to people, You will just need to be convincing is all. There isnt actually any real process for changing RBY tiers, I dont think I will be able to just make a decision without a lot of support.

I strongly advise and request that you join Zilch, Icy, and me in playing some BL and UU (and even NU) matches on NBS, and you'll see that it is perfectly balanced with the (few) changes we've made to the old tiers.

NU shouldnt be affected by any decision made here. Unless just to change its name.

Moving all of the BL pokemon (except the exceptions you listed) merely brings BL down to UU. None of the current UU pokes would ever be used, and consequently you'd just bump all of them down into a lower tier. It really makes no sense.

Well from what I can tell from what you are saying, is that according to how smogon's tiers should work, you are agreeing with me more or less. What I am talking about is official smogon recognition of the BL tier. With this there comes a shifting around of names.

Am I correct in my understanding that rby2k10 tiers are based on wrap being banned? Do you think this would have an impact on the tiering?

I am gonna make a double post to sorta make a better explanation of my thought process for tiering.

Have a nice day.