Thanks for all the feedback again, everyone! After not using Sun for a few days & playing in a Smash Bros Brawl tourney, (My wallet always loves the cash I get from those) I'm finally back to testing Sun.
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Originally Posted by Fat Byrn Dragonstone
First things first, amazing work dude. I myself run a Sun team, and with prevalence of Sand I can attest to how hard it is to make a decent team that can actually win.Now on to the actual suggestions on my part.
Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drought
EVs: 124 HP / 132 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Rest
- Power Swap
- Will-O-Wisp
This is my current Ninetails set. Biggest differences over your are EV's and Rest. The EV's that I am using provide the greatest special bulk while being able to speed tie with other Base 100's and Overheat them to death/Power Swap. I highly suggest these as they have helped me out a lot, though I don't know your playstyle so they might not work for you as well. As for rest, I use it to heal to full and allow for a couple more Sun switches/Status pivot.
Also if you are having issues with Gliscor I have some things that might help.
First up.
Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Atk / 24 Def / 128 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake/Pursuit/Bullet Punch
- Hone Claws
Yes a boosting Meta that isn't an Agiligross. This thing has the Bulk to survive a +2 Gliscor's Earthquake and OHKO with Ice Punch. It can also kill every dragon known to man. After a single Hone Claws it basically OHKO's the entire Metagame. Last moveslot is for coverage. Pursuit allows it to kill the Lati's, Earthquake makes it less walled by Ferrothorn, Bullet Punch is priority. Also since most Gliscor tend to switch in when they see Meta it makes killing them that much easier.
The other Pokemon is a rather underrated Pokemon in my opinion. It can kill of many of the top tier threats and live to tell the tale.
Crobat (M) @ Leftover/Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind/Mean Look/Torment/Taunt/Super Fang
- Roost
Yep, Crobat. Able to outspeed much of the tier it can provide support or just attack and run. U-Turn is obvious scouting/getting out to a better match up. Brave Bird is you STAB of choice. It allows you to go toe to toe with Gliscor and win. It also kills every fighting type (I think, haven't calc'd Lucario) and is a OHKO on Conkledurr. Adamant nature is needed for the extra power and since he sits so high up in the Speed Tiers it isn't going to affect what you outspeed. Roost is to heal off damage from SR and stray moves. The moveslot with all the slashes is where it gets interesting. Tailwind means you team is basically all Cloro users for a few turns (Imagine a Sand Rush Garchomp O.O, or a Mach 5 Lilligant). Mean Look allows you to trap some of the more annoying stuff, such as Gliscor, to weaken or kill. Torment/Taunt are able to break a lot of pokemon, especially choiced mons. Super Fang can be used to quickly shave off half of your opponents health before U-Turning to another Pokemon. Leftovers VS Life Orb is Health VS Damage. Roost can help negate the Life Orb, but with a SR weakness the leftovers are useful.
Some other notable moves are Haze and Sunny Day. Your team doesn't seem to be in need of what those obviously provide so I left them off.
Anyways those are the suggestions that I have. If you find any of them to be useful let me know.
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Ninetales doesn't need Rest. Leftovers lets her switch-in more than enough to keep Sun up and if I need her alive for a few more switches than that, Lilligant always has Healing Wish as an option.
I tried that Metagross earlier except I used Hammer Arm instead of Earthquake. I loved it for a while until I realized it wasn't helping much. All it really did was help against Pokemon I already have checks for and call in Skarmory & Bulky Water-types. It's also too slow to keep up with all the Sun-boosted Fire Attacks coming from faster Pokemon. It just does Durant's job, but far slower while helping out with Pokemon like Garchomp & Gliscor that I sort of have covered already...kinda just like Durant does.
Hell, Durant even stops Deoxys-S by T-Waving it on turn 1 then Paraflinch it for the 2HKO (assuming Sash) mmeaning it can only get 1 entry hazard up or 1 Screen. (Unless they played me before & know about T-Wave)
That Crobat set has peaked my curiosity. I'm gonna try it out, but I'm going to use Infiltrator instead of Inner Focus just to pass through Reflect.
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Originally Posted by Fat Ada
This is a really great team! It helped me get started with sun so I want to be able to thank you. I'm doing my best laddering with it right now to help get it archived. In the meantime, how about some suggestions:
I think you should replace Durant with Scizor. Scizor checks Terrakion whilst acting as a fail-safe against Latios. It also provides some much needed priority for the team. Unlike Durant, Scizor doesn’t just roll over and die to any special attacks and can muscle its way past Gliscor after a couple of boosts. The set I recommend is:
Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost
Scizor fits in well with the strategy of the team. It can take advantage of the sun to get past bulky waters and checks many more threats with powerful priority. Scizor also has more targets to set-up on and increases your overall consistency by utilising moves that are perfectly accurate.
The next change I would consider is with Snorlax: I think Fire Punch should replace Crunch. Pursuit already does a decent job handling Ghosts but Fire Punch can be used to take out Ferrothorn and Scizor since most of them don’t carry Superpower any more. Also, since we’re not using Durant, Body Slam should replace Return. The extra chance of paralysis helps against many things hoping to switch in on a weak dark-type move.
That’s all I can think of at the moment, I hope it helps. :)
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Thanks!
I'll definitely give that Scizor a whirl. I really like Durant's fast T-Wave & even Entertainment but I can see how Scizor can help. Doesn't do me any favors against Lucario though... *shrugs*
Fire Punch on Snorlax might not be a bad idea. Yeah, I'd like to hit those Steel switch-ins, but I do lose the ability to beat Reuniclus & Jellicent 1v1. (Jellicent assuming Safeguard is up)
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Originally Posted by Fat JLei2k
Am I the only one who is wondering how the heck you deal with Specs Toad? 83.3% to 2HKO Snorlax with SR down while Liligant takes 65% with no recovery move meaning you can't switch into it while it can basically switch into Ninetails with impunity and press Surf and kill something.
So basically against a Specs Toad you never have Sun up unless you double switch like a genius or it basically systematically kills each of your pokes 1 by 1 because Ninetails can't do shit to it and you can't switch into it.
Specs/LO Starmie in the rain is even scarier as its harder to revenge kill with Chomp/ Ape.
Maybe I'm not seeing it but seems like this sun team is horrendously rain weak.
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Specs Politoed is a problem on paper, but it's completely solve-able and has never really given me any trouble unless they know about my team beforehand.
Simple Scenario:
Turn 1 Politoed switches to Ferrothorn to counter Lilligant.
Turn 2 Lilligant Sleep Powders Ferro.
Turn 3 Lilli switches to Ninetales.
Turn 4 Ninetales switches to Infernape and Ferro switches to Politoed.
Turn 5 Infernape Close Combats Politoed. (81% minimum HP Damage) Politoed Surfs Infernape. (100% HP Damage) Infernape Faints.
Turn 6 Snorlax comes in. Politoed switches to Ferroth- Snorlax Pursuits. (47.4% minimum HP Damage) Politoed Faints
Turn 7 Ninetales switches in. GG Politoed.
If Infernape, Garchomp, or Durant can get a single nonresistant STAB Attack on Politoed, that scenario will almost always play out just like that. I'll lose 1 Pokemon, 2 max, but Politoed goes down.
And don't even try to say that any Spec Politoed worth his curly hair would stay in against a Snorlax without previous knowledge that Snorlax has Pursuit. (Not like it matter anyway since Snorlax's Pursuit will do enough to KO even if it stays in)
Starmie is even easier since it runs Timid. Get Ninetales in and take around 70% from Life Orb Hydro Pump, switch to Snorlax, then Pursuit. Not hard at all considering I have quite a knack for dragging Politoed out of his hole and KOing him early before Ferro even has a good chance to get Stealth Rocks up.