Smogon Community - View Single Post - Pokémon+ Luck-free metagame : Server up and running !

jagged_angel · Jun 30th, 2011, 10:40:09 AM

Sorry for theorymoning when what this thread really needs is some reviews of the impack of no luck on the OU metagame from players on the server. I will definitely get on the server as soon as I can to check this out, it's a great idea.

I agree that in most respects, a more balanced metagame will result from the changes you've made, but I am most apprehensive about the effect of the new 'never-miss' high powered moves.

A move such as Focus Blast are given a wide distribution for a competitive reason - Fighting is an almost essential coverage type these days. But the move Needs that severe nerf of 70% acc to avoid being overpowered.

How can we get around this in a game where accuracy is essentially no longer part of the game? A drop of -1 SpA to prevent too effective sweeping with 120BP 100acc moves? It seems like a reasonable tradeoff at first glance, but it is likely to change the game hugely.

Take a look at these two sets and see how much improved they are:

Thundurus
Nasty Plot
Thunder
Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
Focus Blast
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Infernape
Nasty Plot
Fire Blast
Focus Blast
Close Combat / Grass Knot / Vacuum Wave
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

In both cases, the sweepers use Nasty Plot to sweep. But both used to have to rely on either a lower powered Thunderbolt/Flamethrower, or risk a miss. Both had to rely on 'Focus Miss'. With the current Pokemon+ server, these problems are gone. The -1 SpA drop won't impact either user too much, since both aim to be starting their sweep with +2 SpA. That means two uses (maybe two kills) of the 120BP moves before you're even back to no boosts. That means 3 guaranteed hits before the Nasty Plot sweeper has to deal with a truly negative SpA change.

There are other examples of sweepers that were previously hindered as a result of their reliance on moves with dodgy accuracy, these examples are just to demonstrate how much sweepers will benefit from the 'never miss' nature of this metagame.

In addition to this point, I would also like to know if these moves will be nerfed in any way, or are they the same but 100% accurate:

Stone Edge
Dragon Rush
Hi Jump Kick

As a side note, I am so glad that in this metagame Jynx has finally learned to kiss properly, I was worried about her missing her punters 1/4 of the time!

You should probably list Sweet Kiss, Confuse Ray etc. on the banned moves since their effect is nullified now that confusion is gone.

Jun 30th, 2011, 10:40:09 AM	#69
jagged_angel Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 571 London	Sorry for theorymoning when what this thread really needs is some reviews of the impack of no luck on the OU metagame from players on the server. I will definitely get on the server as soon as I can to check this out, it's a great idea. I agree that in most respects, a more balanced metagame will result from the changes you've made, but I am most apprehensive about the effect of the new 'never-miss' high powered moves. A move such as Focus Blast are given a wide distribution for a competitive reason - Fighting is an almost essential coverage type these days. But the move Needs that severe nerf of 70% acc to avoid being overpowered. How can we get around this in a game where accuracy is essentially no longer part of the game? A drop of -1 SpA to prevent too effective sweeping with 120BP 100acc moves? It seems like a reasonable tradeoff at first glance, but it is likely to change the game hugely. Take a look at these two sets and see how much improved they are: Thundurus Nasty Plot Thunder Hidden Power Ice / Taunt Focus Blast item: Life Orb / Leftovers ability: Prankster nature: Timid evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Infernape Nasty Plot Fire Blast Focus Blast Close Combat / Grass Knot / Vacuum Wave item: Life Orb nature: Timid / Naive evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe In both cases, the sweepers use Nasty Plot to sweep. But both used to have to rely on either a lower powered Thunderbolt/Flamethrower, or risk a miss. Both had to rely on 'Focus Miss'. With the current Pokemon+ server, these problems are gone. The -1 SpA drop won't impact either user too much, since both aim to be starting their sweep with +2 SpA. That means two uses (maybe two kills) of the 120BP moves before you're even back to no boosts. That means 3 guaranteed hits before the Nasty Plot sweeper has to deal with a truly negative SpA change. There are other examples of sweepers that were previously hindered as a result of their reliance on moves with dodgy accuracy, these examples are just to demonstrate how much sweepers will benefit from the 'never miss' nature of this metagame. In addition to this point, I would also like to know if these moves will be nerfed in any way, or are they the same but 100% accurate: Stone Edge Dragon Rush Hi Jump Kick As a side note, I am so glad that in this metagame Jynx has finally learned to kiss properly, I was worried about her missing her punters 1/4 of the time! You should probably list Sweet Kiss, Confuse Ray etc. on the banned moves since their effect is nullified now that confusion is gone. __________________ If I haven't seen further, it's because giants were standing on my shoulders...