[Tomahawk9]

Originally Posted by Fat New World Order

Hi, got the request. Now, this is a very solid team and you do a great job covering most threats. The one Pokemon that can rampage through your team is DD Scrafty, who can get in a DD against Abomasnow and proceed to wreak havoc. The only Pokemon that it does not outspeed at +1 is Starmie, who wont OHKO with Hydro Pump and is OHKOed in return by Crunch. For this reason, I suggest swapping DD Mence for a Sub DD Gyarados, who can Intimidate Scrafty, wall it, set up itself, and threaten with Bounce. It also ensures you don't open up a weakness to the likes of Lucario. The loss of Double Dragons hurts, but Gyarados can very much fulfill the role of the second "dragon". Substitute should obviously be used conservatively, but can protect Gyara from annoying status.

I would also probably go with Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor. Most of the targets of Pursuit, such as Starmie, Celebi, and Latias, don't pose that great a threat to your team. Gyarados that carry Stone Edge, however, can prove problematic, as Starmie is your only chance to defeat it. Should Starmie go down, you still have a way to wear down Gyarados without relying on a Stone Edge miss. Finally, Starmie is probably the second most valuable member of your team behind Abomasnow. As Leftovers recovery is cancelled out, it would be a shame if it succumbed to Toxic Spikes damage or something. Blizzard is great for a late game sweep. But you already have enough Pokemon who can take out Dragons, Grass-types, and such. Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt provide excellent coverage already, so using Recover in place of Blizzard could go a long way. Especially when keeping Stealth Rock off the field is so important for a Hail team.

GL

Thanks for the rate. Gyarados definitely seems like a solid replacement for Salamence, and I'll be sure to give it a try. Though, I'm probably gonna go with Taunt instead of Substitute (as Delko mentioned) to help against stall teams. Quick Attack on Scizor is also a cool suggestion, and so is Recover for Starmie, thanks for the rate.

Originally Posted by Fat Rewer

Hey, tomahawk9.

First issue I see with this team is your Starmie. The problem with this set is the lack of recovery and hazards will wear this team down very fast since your starmie can't last long with this set. Plus, I suggest changing her spread to EVs: 168 HP / 108 SAtk / 232 Spd. The given EVs allows you to get minimal stealth rock damage, the speed allows you to outrun scrafty after a dd (you can bump it to max if you feel like speed ties with another starmies and raikous are important). Also helps switching on things like Terrakion's Close Combat. The remain EVs are bumped into Special Attack. Also I agree on Recover > Blizzard and I would use Scald > Hydro Pump first change is to keep starmie healthy because you will need her alot. Scald is for try getting timed burns on things like Tyranitar switch ins, Ferrothorn switch ins, awlays a plus.

I think you're overrating the air baloon on heatran. Its main prupose is check dragons, wich you already have enough cover. Ice Shard on Aboma, Bullet on Scizor helps, 2 Steels, Intimidate... yeah, its not that of a huge issue. In counterpart things like Tornadus will run rampant against this team if he gets a grip since your only hurricane switch is heatran wich has no special defense investiment, same draco meteors from latios (though scizor can pursuit this one, you must avoid hp fires though) and hydreigon. You mentioned the air baloon is for dugtrio as well, but your main boys against sun is salamence and kyurem, wich can run rampant against sun, as you can protect heatran from dugtrio until you really need to use him for check something. regardless of the baloon, sun will be a hard matchup though (as it is for any hail team). So a special defense set will help you better. Change you Heatran to 252 HP | 4 SAtk | 252 SDef with a Calm Nature, Lava Plume, Protect, Stealth Rock, Roar.

Nice team, and good luck.

Thanks for the rate. I'll be sure to give Recover on Starmie a try. Your spread also seems pretty cool, and I like the idea of Scald on Starmie, so I'm definitely gonna try it. Defensive Heatran, though, seems kinda odd on such an offensive team, but I'll try it and see how it works out.

Originally Posted by Fat Windsong

Hey, Tomohawk, nice team you've got here, man.

The main real issue I see with the team is that you suffer significantly from the presence of strong Rock-types like Terrakion, which can basically just shit Stone Edges against your entire team. The offensive nature of your team helps remedy this to an extent, but isn't perfect in this regard, as CBTerak and friends basically get a free KO every time they switch in. In a similar vein, as NWO mentioned, strong fighting-types, especially those with Ice- or Rock-type coverage moves can basically tear this team apart, with your only real method of stopping them being to pivot in with Mence for the intimidate, before immediately switching out.

An immediate solution for these problems would be to use Recover > Blizzard on Starmie, since it really needs the longevity and you handle basically all the common Ice-weaks in the meta really well. Another possibly useful change would be to switch your Salamence to a bulkier variant, with Roost > Fire Blast, since the majority of your team handles Ferrothorn and Skarmory easily. You could also invest a bit in Mence's HP, since the extra power isn't too important, considering how fast residual damage wracks up against most teams thanks to Hail, and the benefits of having a more durable switch-in to Fighting-types is a huge boon.

Great team, good luck!

Thanks for the rate. Recover on Starmie, once again, seems like a good suggestion. Bulky Salamence with Rosst also seems cool, definitely gonna give that a try, thanks!

Originally Posted by Fat Haunter

Yeah, as others have pointed out you're pretty weak to fighting mons, Terrakion and Conkeldurr in particular. While this is an offensive minded team I think that a standard defensive SD Gliscor over Salamence might help you to deal with the above threats and some others as well (Breloom among the others) while not twisting too much the concept of your team. An impish Gliscor with taunt or protect\EQ\swords dance\ice fang or facade and an EV spread of 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe is what I'm suggesting. I'm listing protect as an option just for those annoying volt turn teams that are invading the ladder (fuck you Ojama). Gliscor would also give you a backup plan against Scizor, should you lose Heatran prematurely.

Another option, as the above pointed out, would be making Salamence bulky, giving it roost and a more defensive EV spread but I'm not sure how effective it would be against Terrakion and probably even Conk.

I really like this team as it shows that hail offense is an underrated, yet effective playstyle in OU. Good luck with the team.

Thanks! Gliscor seems like a cool idea, helps with Fighting-types, still deals with stall. I'll defintely try it, thanks.

Originally Posted by Fat Joeyboy

Awesome team man :)

Really the only threat that stands out to me is Volcarona. In particular the bulky rest/morning sun versions. Volcarona has no problems setting up on Scizor, Abomasnow, Starmie in the Sun, and even Heatran. Heatran seems to be your go to check but if the Volcarona is one of the variants above all your Heatran can do is pray for a crit as Volc sets up. Your next check is Salamence, who of course can deal some serious damage. Unfortunately bulky restorative variants can fish for the Flame Body burn hax, and then continue destroying. So my suggestion is run Roar on Heatran over HP Ice, this will however make it harder for him to kill Dragons but I think Scizor does an ok job of that already.

I definitely second trying NWO's Sub DD Gyarados because, with no Sun, he provides a much better check to Volcarona, while still serving as very similar poke' to Salamence.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for the rate, I haven't had a lot of trouble with Volcarona because Heatran still does a ton with Fire Blast (thanks to sun), and KOes after Stealth Rock even after a Quiver Dance. Volcarona's Bug Buzz, on the other hand, still does 35% even at +6, letting me fish for a crit or something. Salamence also deals with it pretty good, as it resists the dual stab and does a ton with Outrage. I'll definitely give Roar a try though, and see if losing on hitting Dragonite is worth it, he still gets phazed out by it after all. I'll also give Toxic a try, thanks.

Originally Posted by Fat Delko

Hey Toma

I remember you showed me a first draft of this team (the Nidoking one) and it was a pretty good team back then, but it turned out even better now, so good job on that!
Kyurem is a very underrated, yet very effective anti-metagame poke and your team supports it well.

Personally I wouldn't change a single poke on your team. Yes, there are some weaknesses (relatively small though) but replacing certain pokes will only end up in a weakness to something else. Since this is an offensive team you'll need to focus on keeping an offensive momentum rather then to be able to counter everything you're weak to. But the "smaller" suggestions you got so far are definitely worth the shot, Recover on Starmie is a good option and I can see it work out well for your team. And if you want to go with the Gyarados-suggestion then I suggest Taunt > Substitute to handle stall better, which was on the the reasons you used Salamence in the first place. Taunt should still guard Gyarados from status so you won't lose out on much anyway. As far as other options go, Psyshock is a useful move on Starmie as well, being able to hit Fighting-types and stuff as CM Virizion and Gastrodon much harder, or Giga Drain on Abomasnow so you can switch into Water-types without fearing a Scald burn as much as well as having some form of additional recovery.

Not much else to say as the team looks good as it is, good luck!

Thanks for the rate, Psyshock on Starmie is definetely a cool option, and I'll be sure to give it a try. Taunt on Gyarados also seems like the better move on Gyarados to handle stall, thanks. Giga Drain on Abomasnow helps me heal but I'm not sure if it's worth losing out on the huge power difference, especially against Tyranitar. I'll be sure to give it a try though!