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OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
DD Gyarados fits well into the team, imo.
DD Gyarados
Although we'll have to run Intimidate since Double Edge is illegal with Moxie, but oh well.
Although we'll have to run Intimidate since Double Edge is illegal with Moxie, but oh well.
DD Gyarados
ginganinja said:
DD gyarados
Would also like to apologize for not finishing my nomination for Rotom-W, my assignments got in the way and nursing school trumps pokemon.
Would also like to apologize for not finishing my nomination for Rotom-W, my assignments got in the way and nursing school trumps pokemon.
righto, the outcome of this was pretty certain considering the winner had about 17 votes on it or so. Sorry I couldn't update this but Pocket had IRL shit to do and I had a family emergency and a couple of assignments to do so my apologies for the wait!!!
GYARADOS (DD)
As far as what we focus on this stage of teambuilding, im leaving it open. We have a three pokemon core, some good attacking power and such like. Its my view that we still need Stealth Rock on this team, since it helps get those KOs, as well as limiting Dragonite / Salamence / Gyarados / Volcarona which are all pretty powerful threats. Right now, Volcarona can hurt us pretty badly if Gyarados is weakened, and pokemon such as Terrakion can fire off Stone Edges and not really care what switchs in. In general, fast pokemon such as Latios, Gengar, Landorus, Scarf Rotom W, Virizion, and dragons such as Salamence are all annoying to an extent. Some way of handling these pokemon would be neat I think.
Refer to our Team Checklist when making a nomination, and I encourage you to check out what still needs handling, and perhapes what we might need in the future for our next slot.
Make sure when you're making a nomination to disclose the full moveset. You may suggest more than 1 partner, but make sure to clarify whether these partners are meant to be voted together or separately.
Get nominating :)
EDIT: Leaving this here
ATTN Pocket: Feel free to edit this post or the OP if I forgot to mention something!!!!
GYARADOS (DD)
As far as what we focus on this stage of teambuilding, im leaving it open. We have a three pokemon core, some good attacking power and such like. Its my view that we still need Stealth Rock on this team, since it helps get those KOs, as well as limiting Dragonite / Salamence / Gyarados / Volcarona which are all pretty powerful threats. Right now, Volcarona can hurt us pretty badly if Gyarados is weakened, and pokemon such as Terrakion can fire off Stone Edges and not really care what switchs in. In general, fast pokemon such as Latios, Gengar, Landorus, Scarf Rotom W, Virizion, and dragons such as Salamence are all annoying to an extent. Some way of handling these pokemon would be neat I think.
Refer to our Team Checklist when making a nomination, and I encourage you to check out what still needs handling, and perhapes what we might need in the future for our next slot.
Make sure when you're making a nomination to disclose the full moveset. You may suggest more than 1 partner, but make sure to clarify whether these partners are meant to be voted together or separately.
Get nominating :)
EDIT: Leaving this here
ATTN Pocket: Feel free to edit this post or the OP if I forgot to mention something!!!!
Okay, I'll be boring just to get this conversation going. Nominating Scarf Terrakion:
Nice lategame sweeper and as was discussed in previous stages it synergises really nicely with Zoroark especially, since Zoro tends to severely damage common switchins like Gliscor, Slowbro, Ghosts and Psychic types. Also checks nearly all of the serious threats which ginga outlined.
Terrakion @ Choice Scarf, Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake / Rock Slide
Mamoswine @ Life Orb, Snow Cloak
Adamant, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake / Icicle Crash / Ice Shard / Stealth Rock
Mamoswine is an excellent offensive SR user since it can force out a ton of things with its powerful dual STAB with near-perfect coverage coming off 130 base Atk. Mamoswine also helps the team by having STAB Ice Shard to take out threats to the team such as Salamence, Landorus, Virizion and Latios. Mamoswine also fits perfectly on this team as its two main counters in RotomW and Skarmory are taken out by Gyarados and Zoroark respectively.
Adamant, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake / Icicle Crash / Ice Shard / Stealth Rock
Mamoswine is an excellent offensive SR user since it can force out a ton of things with its powerful dual STAB with near-perfect coverage coming off 130 base Atk. Mamoswine also helps the team by having STAB Ice Shard to take out threats to the team such as Salamence, Landorus, Virizion and Latios. Mamoswine also fits perfectly on this team as its two main counters in RotomW and Skarmory are taken out by Gyarados and Zoroark respectively.
I can say from experience that Mamoswine does not make a good layer of Stealth Rock other than the suicide Endeavor / Sash lead set. Why? Because Mamo doesn't get free turns with its common weaknesses. Even Pokemon it can force out can kill it if they predict the SR and stay in, and then we're really fucked.
I strongly suggest we don't use Mamoswine as our main SR layer (it can work as a backup though) and that if we use Mamoswine we use it to capitalize on its powerful Priority Ice Shard and dual Stabs. In that vien, I'm going to go ahead and re-nominate everything from last round! :D what? They're all still equally viable as they ever were!
I might nominate something new later but for now I'm good with this. We'll see where this goes later.Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0
4. If we can keep hazards off the field then it'll make maintaining that illusion a lot easier, so a spinner is necessary. As such, I suggest LO Starmie as a teammate. Asside from spinning, it also is a very powerful special attacker and potent revenge killer, with resistances to Mach and Bullet Punch to boot. It can also function as an illusion partner, taking the same hazard damage as Zoroark. Zoroark disguised as it can easily lure in spinblockers to demolish with Dark Pulse, making keeping hazards off the field easier. It can also lure in and destroy Tyranitar. All in all, seems like a good partner to me.
EDIT: Since Pocket wanted an actual full set, here's the general standard for Starmie.
@ Life Orb
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt / Psychic (For Infernape, Conk, Virizon and other fighting types not hit hard enough by other moves).
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump / Surf
We can always change it around if we want to as well, but for starters this should be fine. Something like Trick-Specs could be fun though, screwing with Blissey and Chansey and the like for Zoroark, but I'll just go with the safe option for start.
Yeah I said I was going to nominate it again and I meant it. Sure it doesn't check ALL the threats listed by Pocket, but it doesn't have to. We have 3 more Pokemon to chose after this one remember! It does however check Gyarados, Dragonite, Infernape, Gengar (well if it's weakened), SD Virizon (Weakened again), Haxorus (Before boost), Tornadus, Latias, Terrakion, Volcarona, Salamance, Landorus (assuming it doesn't Scarf Turn on you), Gliscor and many more.
However if you REALLY want to focus on revenge killing, here's a fun set that can really screw with shit. Of course, you lose out on Rapid Spin... but hey, this could possibly be a better fit.
@ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Trick
- Thunderbolt / Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump / Surf
Wait what you say? Scarfed Starmie? Why would you do that? Oh ho, well I'm glad you asked. Now you outspeed pretty much everything not just unboosted, but also at +1, and have the moveset to take it out. It doesn't have a lot of power compared to Life Orb, but I know from experience using Starmie that you hardly need power when you have coverage like Starmie does. Trick allows us to REALLY screw with Blissey, Chansey, Jellicent, SDef Jirachi etc., all of which usually switch into Starmie without fear. Basically, this Starmie serves two roles; one, it serves as a very potent revenge killer against a very wide array of Pokemon, and two, it can cripple a wall when we don't need the extra speed and then continue to function as a fairly fast check to threats like Gliscor and Dragonite even after losing its scarf.
Nature is Modest, because it still outspeeds +1 Salamence (the fastest threat it'll likely be called on to check) with Scarf and the extra power is much appreciated, but Timid can be run instead if we find ourselves being outsped by too many things after tricking our Scarf away (as after tricking away the scarf you fail to outspeed positive natured base 101+, including important things like Landorus, Infernape, Terrakion and Virizon). Sure it can't check EVERYTHING (Some things it won't be able to OHKO that can OHKO in return, such as SD Scizor or bulky DDnite), but if you thought we were going to check absolutely everything with one Pokemon then you're nuts. Remember again, 3 more Pokemon after this one.
But wait! There's more! I'm also nominating this new gem I only recently rediscovered; Life Orb Mamoswine.
@ Life Orb
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly / Adamant
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge / Hail
I never really appreciated Mamoswine until I started using it, and my god what a godly revenge killer/wallbreaker does he make. Ice Shard hammers so, SO many things in the tier for super-effective damage, and can KO many of them from full health or after just a tiny bit of prior damage. Lati@s, Dragonite, Salamence, Gliscor, Landorus, Virizon, every Chloro Sweeper except Tangrowth (who's slow enough we can beat it with something else), Tornadus, Jolteon, Celebi and more all fall to his mighty Ice Shard. And that's not all he's good for either; Mamoswine hits like an absolute truck and gets great coverage between it's stabs in OU. Gliscor is flat out OHKO'd by Icicle Crash, Jellicent, gastrodon, and Vaporeon are 2HKO'd by Earthquake, Forretress and Ferrothorn are 2HKO'd after taking one layer of spikes and SR, and Skarmory is 3HKO'd by Icicle Crash which doesn't sound like much until you factor in the 30% flinch chance, meaning you flat out beat it most of the time with Rocks up. Finally, as long as hail and sandstorm aren't present it can masquerade as Zoroark pretty damn well too. Oh, and if you want you can run Hail in place of Stone Edge (you don't lose a ton of coverage, really just Gyrados and Rotom-W which you can only hit on the switch anyway) to remove Sandstorm and faciliate Illusion for things like Terrakion, as well as just to generally screw with weather. Snow Cloak becomes a nice bonus then too.
Again, Mamoswine won't check everything with this set. Scizor, Infernape, Gyarados, Air Balloon heatran and others will still defeat it. But again, no matter who we chose this stage we'll still need at least one other Pokemon to check the remainder of the threats we need. Let's face it; Haxorus and Zoroark aren't checking a lot of things on their own, so no matter what we're going to need to beef up on our checks.
Note: All three nominations are separate; the difference between Scarf Starmie and LO Starmie is vast enough that grouping them together is kind of stupid.
right, at the moment we have 3 set up sweepers (subsitiute counts) so what we need is a hole puncher
so i had a good long think about who to nominate and one thing kept coming into my mind
specs latios it can run an amazing dual dragon combo with haxorus as they both hit from different sides of the spectrum.
Latios@ choice specs
evs:252spa/252spe/4hp
-draco meteor
-surf
-dragon pulse
-psyshock
this set is hard to explain but i will try. smash shit with draco meteor switch repeat. i will edit in more tomorrow as i'm tired
so i had a good long think about who to nominate and one thing kept coming into my mind
specs latios it can run an amazing dual dragon combo with haxorus as they both hit from different sides of the spectrum.
Latios@ choice specs
evs:252spa/252spe/4hp
-draco meteor
-surf
-dragon pulse
-psyshock
this set is hard to explain but i will try. smash shit with draco meteor switch repeat. i will edit in more tomorrow as i'm tired
Unless something comes up, I fully support Scarf Terrakion right now.
I'm building a test team with him right now, so I'll see how that works out. The biggest flaw of Terrakion I can see is that he's not safe switching in on Dragons & Gyarados, which we want him to take now. I'm gonna try pairing Terrakion with 4th Gen's Lead Celebi or something similar to get SR up and act as a Pivot to get Terrakion in on a resisted attack since we don't want Terrakion to switch-into an Outrage.
I'm building a test team with him right now, so I'll see how that works out. The biggest flaw of Terrakion I can see is that he's not safe switching in on Dragons & Gyarados, which we want him to take now. I'm gonna try pairing Terrakion with 4th Gen's Lead Celebi or something similar to get SR up and act as a Pivot to get Terrakion in on a resisted attack since we don't want Terrakion to switch-into an Outrage.
Physically-Defensive Heatran
Heatran@ Air Balloon
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
248 HP / 100 Def / 160 Spe
-Lava Plume/Magma Storm
-Stealth Rock
-Protect/Roar
-Will o Wisp/Toxic
This thing is pretty ballin'. It walls Dragonite and most dragons all day. It resists outrage and extremespeed, is immune to fire punch, and the air balloon is for earthquake. It can also set up stealth rock capably.
Heatran provides an important dragon resist, and can phaze. But here's the annying thing about facing this set:
If Heatran comes in on a choice user locked in on something it resists, in can trap with Magma Storm, and either set up Stealth Rock or give something an opportunity to set up. Even though its accuracy is shaky, its worked wonders for me, and with WoW it can cripple most physical attackers, or toxic+protect stall
Heatran@ Air Balloon
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
248 HP / 100 Def / 160 Spe
-Lava Plume/Magma Storm
-Stealth Rock
-Protect/Roar
-Will o Wisp/Toxic
This thing is pretty ballin'. It walls Dragonite and most dragons all day. It resists outrage and extremespeed, is immune to fire punch, and the air balloon is for earthquake. It can also set up stealth rock capably.
Heatran provides an important dragon resist, and can phaze. But here's the annying thing about facing this set:
If Heatran comes in on a choice user locked in on something it resists, in can trap with Magma Storm, and either set up Stealth Rock or give something an opportunity to set up. Even though its accuracy is shaky, its worked wonders for me, and with WoW it can cripple most physical attackers, or toxic+protect stall
Yeah, personally I rather like Scarf Terrakion too. Sure, it doesn't take an Outrage or something, but seeing as its fast pokemon that we are trying to check, I don't like stuff like Mamoswine which still leaves us weak to Volcarona, Terrakion, Gengar, Scarf Rotom W (I guess) and yea, general stuff like that.
Starmie would prolly be my secondary pick atm since it naturally outspeeds some of the pokemon on the list I mentioned, although again, anything with a speed boost either a scarf or a boosting move like Quiver Dance, is really going to hurt so yea, I like Terrakion best at this stage.
Starmie would prolly be my secondary pick atm since it naturally outspeeds some of the pokemon on the list I mentioned, although again, anything with a speed boost either a scarf or a boosting move like Quiver Dance, is really going to hurt so yea, I like Terrakion best at this stage.
Aight, time to nominate something in a complete different direction than what I nominated last time:
Weavile (F) @ Life Orb / Choice Band (I like Life Orb to avoid losing momentum)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Ice Punch / Night Slash
- Low Kick
When I saw
Potential downsides include piling on more hazard weaknesses but, let's face it -- with LO Gyara on the team, we're going to use a Rapid Spinner. On the plus side, Weavile adds another source of physical pressure. Zoroark is luring Scizor for us, and Weavile gives us a way to hit hard and fast. Weavile's speed tier does nothing but help as well.
Weavile (F) @ Life Orb / Choice Band (I like Life Orb to avoid losing momentum)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Ice Punch / Night Slash
- Low Kick
When I saw
the first thing I thought was "well, why not an even faster Pokemon?" Weavile can revenge Terrakion with Low Kick, revenge traps Latios and Starmie, who both trouble this team, at will (provided some prior damage, it can OHKO with Pursuit even when it doesn't switch out) and revenges Landorus, Salamence, and non-LO Dragonite as well. I've had it OHKO Heatran and obviously Gliscor. Weavile is kind of like a physical Alakazam in that it's quite difficult to switch into, especially for offensive teams. Unfortunately, Weavile has no real way of hitting Rotom-W unless we use Night Slash, but then we don't OHKO Gliscor.
Potential downsides include piling on more hazard weaknesses but, let's face it -- with LO Gyara on the team, we're going to use a Rapid Spinner. On the plus side, Weavile adds another source of physical pressure. Zoroark is luring Scizor for us, and Weavile gives us a way to hit hard and fast. Weavile's speed tier does nothing but help as well.
Weavile sounds o.k but then again, it just makes us even more Terrakion weak since nothing at all, can take a Stone Edge. Sure, running Scarf Terrakion doesn't actually fix the problem, but at least we can have ANTHING take a STAB Stone Edge and right now running 4 pokemon without a Rock Resist (and then add Starmie or something to spin) and we are looking at a seriously Terrakion weak team. I would consider this a personal failure if our CCAT ends up being weak to pokemon on our Team Checklist that we are supposed to check -_-. Asside from all this tho, Weavile doesn't do too badly, I just hate how we have to sac something to bring it in, and then X can freely switch back out (unless its Dark Weak I guess) which leaves us prolly vulnerable. SO yea, don't like Weavile very much sorry :(
EDIT
Some pokemon im thinking seriously about both at this stage, and in future stages are Breloom / SD Scizor / Scarf Jirachi (or Wish + CM) / Conkeldurr. They are all just ideas tho
EDIT
Some pokemon im thinking seriously about both at this stage, and in future stages are Breloom / SD Scizor / Scarf Jirachi (or Wish + CM) / Conkeldurr. They are all just ideas tho
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch / U-turn / Trick
- ThunderPunch
Scarf Jirachi is a good catch-all revenge killer, with Iron Head and Serene Grace along with its resistances which lets it take down most Pokemon that don't resist Iron Head. Unlike Terrakion, Jirachi is able to switch in Dragon attacks thanks to its Steel-typing. With Ice Punch it KOes Salamence and with ThunderPunch it KOes Gyarados. Fire Punch is for coverage, but a utility move could work there if needed.
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch / U-turn / Trick
- ThunderPunch
Scarf Jirachi is a good catch-all revenge killer, with Iron Head and Serene Grace along with its resistances which lets it take down most Pokemon that don't resist Iron Head. Unlike Terrakion, Jirachi is able to switch in Dragon attacks thanks to its Steel-typing. With Ice Punch it KOes Salamence and with ThunderPunch it KOes Gyarados. Fire Punch is for coverage, but a utility move could work there if needed.
Personally I am liking defensive Donphan as a Pokemon for this team as it is able to take the Stone Edges from Terrakion easily, set up hazards for the team, remove Stealth Rock and other hazards from the field (helps for Gyarados to survive longer by allowing it to switch in more and hide Zoroark's illusion so it can be a Stealth Rock weak pokemon or levitating pokemon), use Ice Shard to revenge Dragons such as Salamence and weakened Virizon, as well as not being complete set-up bait for Pokemon like Volcarona. As it is more defensive it can be used for more utility than other Pokemon on this team while still being able to revenge kill.
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
Just need a Special Wall.......
Edit: Never mind about the Special Wall thing, I did not realize that the team's style was based upon Heavy Offense. Because it is a more offensive team the EVs should be 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def with an Adamant nature, but with the same moveset.
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
Just need a Special Wall.......
Edit: Never mind about the Special Wall thing, I did not realize that the team's style was based upon Heavy Offense. Because it is a more offensive team the EVs should be 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def with an Adamant nature, but with the same moveset.