Smogon Community - View Single Post - CAP 3 - Part 6

Engineer Pikachu · May 4th, 2012, 8:55:56 PM

Both comments and feedback, good or bad, are always appreciated.

Stat Spread [FINAL SUBMISSION]

99 HP / 71 Atk / 87 Def / 114 SpA / 100 SpD / 71 Spe

HP: (N/A) - 339 - 402 - (N/A)
Atk: (160) - 178 - 241 - (265)
Def: (189) - 210 - 273 - (300)
SpA: (237) - 264 - 327 - (359)
SpD: (212) - 236 - 299 - (328)
Spe: (160) - 178 - 241 - (265)

PT: 152.75 - Very Good
ST: 173.65 - Very Good
PS: 96.85 - Below Average
SS: 154.67 - Very Good

BSR: 316.51 - Very Good
BST: 542

You will note that the individual stat ratings—PT, ST, PS, and SS—are almost identical to the limits, except scaled down to what I feel is an appropriate BSR, for reasons to be explained below. This is because the stat limits are essentially what I feel the CAP should look like in terms of stats, but they are a bit too high. If you're too lazy to read through calculations, just read the bolded parts that are handily included outside of the hide tags; they convey the gist of my stat spread.

Justifications

OVERALL OFFENSE

In terms of general offense, the first thing that may pop out as people is the Special Sweepiness; I personally don't think that this is too high, though, for reasons given below. In the relevant stat justifications, I will make my case for this stat spread being great offensively; offensively, it can be tailored to do several things, but it's not so good that it can easily accomplish all of them. Substantial investment will be needed in order for CAP3 to beat some of its main threats, which will leave not enough EVs for it to beat other threats.

Speed

- 71 Speed allows CAP3 to outspeed Politoed, Jellicent, and Specially Defensive Heatran.
- CAP3 is still outsped by all of its threats bar Tyranitar

Spe Justification

Special Attack

- 114 Special Attack allows CAP3 to threaten things it is to threaten offensively, but usually requires substantial investment.
- 114 Special Attack is not enough to deal with its threats.

SpA Justification

Attack

- 71 Attack lets CAP3 beat certain Pokemon that it should that it cannot with its Special Attack.
- 71 Attack is still not enough to beat Tyranitar nor the Ground-types.

Atk Justification

OVERALL DEFENSE

I'll admit that 100 / 89 / 100 defenses is very good, but given that Fire / Poison is absolutely horrible defensively, these stats are kind of necessary in order to make sure it doesn't keel over to a wave of a feather. Keep in mind, though, that even with these defenses, CAP3 is basically obliterated by any Ground-type attack.

HP

100 is a nice number. After tinkering around with several other possible spreads, it also worked the best; it served as the middle ground between having to have absurd Defense and Special Defense stats to make up for low HP, while not encroaching on the "high HP, low defenses" syndrome. As HP is tied in with both physical and special bulk, I'll let those two sections explain; there's not really much point in just explaining the HP stat without mentioning Defense or Special Defense.

EDIT: erisia has just given me an excellent idea. Considering that, after outspeeding 160 Spe Heatran and investing fully into either attacking stat, we have 44 EVs left to spare. By lowering the HP stat to 99, we require CAP3 to invest a large chunk—40 EVs—of the 44 remaining in order to hit a Life Orb number, and 24 EVs to hit a Leftovers / Dry Skin number. Calculations below are essentially unchanged.

Physical Bulk

- These defensive stats -- 99 HP and 87 Def -- give it decent bulk, but are still destroyed by Venusaur and its threats.
- Parts of this justification assume an ability other than Dry Skin.

Physical Bulk Justification

Special Bulk

- Withstands attacks from bulky Water-types even under rain as well as weaker special attackers, but still fall to special threats.
- 99 HP and 100 Special Defense are not enough to let it survive attacks from powerful special threats.
- Parts of this justification assume an ability other than Dry Skin.

Special Bulk Justification

RECAP

Overall, I can say with certainty that this spread isn't too good, and it's not too bad either. These stats allow CAP3 to beat out Pokemon that it needs to threaten, but they are not enough to let it withstand the myriad of Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon that threaten it. Its Speed allows it to outpace the faster bulky Water-types bar Tentacruel as well as defensive Heatran, but it is outsped by the Ground-types as well as offensive Heatran. Its offenses, again, beat out the bulky Water-types along with some Grass-types, but aren't enough against the other Pokemon. Likewise, its bulk is sufficient against Pokemon such as Jellicent and Politoed, but almost anything with Earthquake and even the powerful special attackers are able to beat it, despite its higher stats. The EVs give the user a choice as to what it wants to do, which I feel is important in making this normally bad typing better.

May 4th, 2012, 8:55:56 PM	#3
Engineer Pikachu take into the air... Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,196	Both comments and feedback, good or bad, are always appreciated. Stat Spread [FINAL SUBMISSION] 99 HP / 71 Atk / 87 Def / 114 SpA / 100 SpD / 71 Spe HP: (N/A) - 339 - 402 - (N/A) Atk: (160) - 178 - 241 - (265) Def: (189) - 210 - 273 - (300) SpA: (237) - 264 - 327 - (359) SpD: (212) - 236 - 299 - (328) Spe: (160) - 178 - 241 - (265) PT: 152.75 - Very Good ST: 173.65 - Very Good PS: 96.85 - Below Average SS: 154.67 - Very Good BSR: 316.51 - Very Good BST: 542 You will note that the individual stat ratings—PT, ST, PS, and SS—are almost identical to the limits, except scaled down to what I feel is an appropriate BSR, for reasons to be explained below. This is because the stat limits are essentially what I feel the CAP should look like in terms of stats, but they are a bit too high. If you're too lazy to read through calculations, just read the bolded parts that are handily included outside of the hide tags; they convey the gist of my stat spread. Justifications OVERALL OFFENSE In terms of general offense, the first thing that may pop out as people is the Special Sweepiness; I personally don't think that this is too high, though, for reasons given below. In the relevant stat justifications, I will make my case for this stat spread being great offensively; offensively, it can be tailored to do several things, but it's not so good that it can easily accomplish all of them. Substantial investment will be needed in order for CAP3 to beat some of its main threats, which will leave not enough EVs for it to beat other threats. Speed - 71 Speed allows CAP3 to outspeed Politoed, Jellicent, and Specially Defensive Heatran. - CAP3 is still outsped by all of its threats bar Tyranitar Spe Justification The first thing I wanted to determine was Speed. Given our threat list, it makes sense for it to outspeed as many of the things it is meant to threaten as possible, while not being able to outspeed Pokemon that were supposed to threaten it. Outspeeding Tentacruel seemed like too big of a speed benchmark, so I settled for the next one -- Heatran. 71 Speed allows CAP3 to outspeed Politoed, Jellicent, and Specially Defensive Heatran, while not letting it outspeed the threats that threaten it. That is, CAP3 is outsped by all of its threats bar Tyranitar, who it cannot threaten in any way with only its STABs. The fastest Jellicent set, Choice Specs, is outsped by one point by 0 Spe CAP3. Likewise, 0 Spe Politoed is outsped by two points by 0 Spe CAP3, and 248 Speed EVs with a neutral nature ensures that CAP3 will always outspeed Modest Politoed; to outspeed Timid Politoed, all that is needed is to use a +Spe nature as well. 212 Speed EVs guarantees that CAP3 will outspeed Specially Defensive Heatran, and, although CAP3 can outspeed Modest Offensive Heatran with a +Spe nature, it really can't do much to it anyways. Out of the five Rock / Ground type Pokemon listed as threats, three of them always outspeed CAP3, one of them—Tyranitar—always underspeeds but walls CAP3, and the last one—Gliscor—simply needs to add 48 more Speed EVs than normal to guarantee an outspeed; if CAP3 doesn't run +Spe, however, Gliscor doesn't need to change its EVs. Special Attack - 114 Special Attack allows CAP3 to threaten things it is to threaten offensively, but usually requires substantial investment. - 114 Special Attack is not enough to deal with its threats. SpA Justification While 114 Special Attack may seem to be too high for some people, this stat is not without good reason -- blame Politoed's fatness for that. Basically, 114 Special Attack allows CAP3 to threaten things it is to threaten offensively, but usually requires substantial investment. Factoring in Leftovers and assuming at least either one layer of Spikes or Stealth Rock on the opponent's field, Politoed is 2HKOed by 0 SpA Sludge Wave. It might seem strange that I've made it such that Politoed is able to be 2HKOed without any investment, but this is merely a "first step." What I'd call the "next step" is the next level of investment; on average, assuming the same conditions, standard 248/0 Jellicent finds itself KOed with the combo of Acid Spray + Sludge Wave with maximum Special Attack; this is somewhat significant, as we cannot really threaten Jellicent in any other way. Ferrothorn is OHKOed by Fire Blast with no investment, but under rain, where I expect CAP3 to shine given Dry Skin, the only way for CAP3 to deal with Ferrothorn easily is maximum Special Attack LO Life Orb, which is a semi-reliable OHKO with Stealth Rock and a guaranteed OHKO with one layer of Spikes. 114 SpA deals with CAP3's things that it should check quite nicely, but making sure that it's not too much is also a good idea. With maximum Special Attack and a Life Orb, the weakest Ground-type there, Dugtrio, survives Sludge Wave; this shouldn't really be significant, given that Dugtrio will KO with Earthquake, but who knows? Against a Pokemon that may be paralyzed, Standard Terrakion, maximum Special Attack Life Orb Fire Blast deals only around 46% damage; this means that Terrakion has a puny 0.99% chance to be 2HKOed, while, again, CAP3 is KOed with an Earthquake. Thus, we can conclude that 114 Special Attack is not enough to deal with its threats. With that in mind, we can go to Attack. Attack - 71 Attack lets CAP3 beat certain Pokemon that it should that it cannot with its Special Attack. - 71 Attack is still not enough to beat Tyranitar nor the Ground-types. Atk Justification Aside from having nice symmetry with the Speed stat and making the BST a multiple of five, there are a few reasons that CAP3 has this specific Attack stat. Though not really significant, as I envision CAP3 to be more specially based to deal with the given threats, 71 Attack lets CAP3 beat certain Pokemon that it should that it cannot with its Special Attack. Virizion, though not too common in OU, is not really dealt with by CAP3's Special side, given its enormous Special Defense. On the physical side, however, things are a different story; with 252 Attack EVs, Virizion is (barely) a guaranteed OHKO with Gunk Shot. With a Coil boost, Gunk Shot can also OHKO Celebi, something that Sludge Wave might not be able to accomplish given its lower base power. It's also important to note, though, that 71 Attack is still not enough to beat Tyranitar nor the Ground-types. At +1 Atk, 252 Attack EVs, and a Life Orb, CAP3 is still dealing only about 32% to Tyranitar per Gunk Shot, while it can Earthquake back and easily KO. And although Landorus should not be getting hit by CAP3, the same Gunk Shot as above only deals about 47% damage -- a mere 9% chance to 2HKO, which is negligible given that CAP3 should never stay in on Landorus, and if it does, it will not survive for two rounds. OVERALL DEFENSE I'll admit that 100 / 89 / 100 defenses is very good, but given that Fire / Poison is absolutely horrible defensively, these stats are kind of necessary in order to make sure it doesn't keel over to a wave of a feather. Keep in mind, though, that even with these defenses, CAP3 is basically obliterated by any Ground-type attack. HP 100 is a nice number. After tinkering around with several other possible spreads, it also worked the best; it served as the middle ground between having to have absurd Defense and Special Defense stats to make up for low HP, while not encroaching on the "high HP, low defenses" syndrome. As HP is tied in with both physical and special bulk, I'll let those two sections explain; there's not really much point in just explaining the HP stat without mentioning Defense or Special Defense. EDIT: erisia has just given me an excellent idea. Considering that, after outspeeding 160 Spe Heatran and investing fully into either attacking stat, we have 44 EVs left to spare. By lowering the HP stat to 99, we require CAP3 to invest a large chunk—40 EVs—of the 44 remaining in order to hit a Life Orb number, and 24 EVs to hit a Leftovers / Dry Skin number. Calculations below are essentially unchanged. Physical Bulk - These defensive stats -- 99 HP and 87 Def -- give it decent bulk, but are still destroyed by Venusaur and its threats. - Parts of this justification assume an ability other than Dry Skin. Physical Bulk Justification In order for CAP3 to be even slightly useful, I wanted to maximize its bulk as much as possible, given some restrictions. Essentially, these defensive stats -- 99 HP and 87 Def -- give it decent bulk, but are still destroyed by Venusaur and its threats. -Def CAP3 is always OHKOed by +2 LO Mixed Growth Venusaur's Return, Stealth Rock or not, while 0 Def CAP3 is OHKOed by the same with Stealth Rock and has a decent chance (around 35%) of being OHKOed without Stealth Rock. The main reason why I am including Venusaur in these calculations is that, given Dry Skin, I expect CAP3 to want to stay out of sun. Being threatened by Venusaur only heightens that urgency. Needless to say, all of its physical threats destroy CAP3 with their Ground-type attacks. Dragonite also wrecks CAP3 with Aqua Tail—a guaranteed OHKO under rain and a guaranteed OHKO outside of rain with Stealth Rock; note that this also assumes an ability other than Dry Skin. However, keep in mind that if you choose not to invest in offenses, investing in bulk can allow CAP3 to deal with Venusaur that lack Earthquake. Aside from these Pokemon, there's not really that much more to mention; if you have any calculations you want to see, though, tell me and I'll add them in. Special Bulk - Withstands attacks from bulky Water-types even under rain as well as weaker special attackers, but still fall to special threats. - 99 HP and 100 Special Defense are not enough to let it survive attacks from powerful special threats. - Parts of this justification assume an ability other than Dry Skin. Special Bulk Justification The strongest out of all the category's, CAP3's special bulk is slightly dependent on the fact that it will have an ability other than Dry Skin. CAP3's Special bulk allows it to withstand attacks from bulky Water-types even under rain as well as weaker special attackers, but still fall to special threats. Without any investment whatsoever, CAP3 is able to survive a Rain-boosted Surf from the Standard Utility Counter set. This also allows CAP3 to survive Rain-boosted Scald from Standard Politoed, as well as both Scald and Surf from Tentacruel—boosted by rain, of course. CAP3 also fares well against Specially Defensive Heatran with these stats; with Dry Skin and a boost from sun, Heatran's Lava Plume fails to 2HKO, even factoring in the 12.5% residual damage at the end of each round from Dry Skin. Without sun, however, Heatran's Lava Plume isn't even a 5HKO on average, which proves that this special bulk is enough to deal with the Pokemon it should deal with. On the flip side, however, 99 HP and 100 Special Defense are not enough to let it survive attacks from powerful special threats. Offensive Heatran's Earth Power OHKOes CAP3 the majority of the time (in fact, a supermajority), which means that with any extra residual damage CAP3 is easily OHKOed, and Offensive Heatran often doesn't even need the damage. With a Life Orb, Heatran blows CAP3 into outer space. In fact, with Stealth Rock, LO Modest Heatran 2HKOes CAP3 with even Fire Blast; with Stealth Rock, it can also OHKO CAP3 under the sun. Tank Dragonite has a guaranteed 2HKO on CAP3 with Hurricane factoring in Stealth Rock and leftovers, while Offensive Rain Dragonite has an easy 2HKO on it. It's clear from these calculations that Heatran and Dragonite, CAP3's prime special threats, can still deal with it fairly easily. Gastrodon also gets the jump on CAP3 with Earth Power, easily KOing after some sort of entry hazards, even with a large amount of bulk invested. RECAP Overall, I can say with certainty that this spread isn't too good, and it's not too bad either. These stats allow CAP3 to beat out Pokemon that it needs to threaten, but they are not enough to let it withstand the myriad of Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon that threaten it. Its Speed allows it to outpace the faster bulky Water-types bar Tentacruel as well as defensive Heatran, but it is outsped by the Ground-types as well as offensive Heatran. Its offenses, again, beat out the bulky Water-types along with some Grass-types, but aren't enough against the other Pokemon. Likewise, its bulk is sufficient against Pokemon such as Jellicent and Politoed, but almost anything with Earthquake and even the powerful special attackers are able to beat it, despite its higher stats. The EVs give the user a choice as to what it wants to do, which I feel is important in making this normally bad typing better. __________________ [11:35] <Zarator> My friend always laugh at me for liking young girls [11:35] <Zarator> I am still within reasonableness^^ GP Team - VM for a check! Last edited by Engineer Pikachu; May 8th, 2012 at 12:23:34 AM.