What do you think is the most underrated Pokemon in OU? (Read the OP and Post #215)

hydraRest Vaporeon is underated..
give it max defenses and it can wall a lot of things
I used this set and it is amazing


Vaporeon @ leftovers
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 hp, 252 Def(bold)

-toxic
-roar
-Scald
-rest
GODDAMIT! You beat me to it by literally a few minutes. I WROTE that damn set. Let me elaborate on it more for people.

The thing about Hydration Wall Vapreon is that it is, by far, the best wall in OU. Yes I said it. How? Because it's the only wall in OU that can wall Pokemon that 2HKO it. In fact, it's the only wall period that can do it. And you know how many things OHKO Vaporeon? Not a lot. Most of them are powerful attackers with STAB grass and electric attacks. Non-stab attacks won't do it; it'll tank your life orb starmie all day long. It can screw with things like CB Haxorus as well. Just give it some toxic spikes support or Rocky Helmet, and it can just Rest until it dies.

You can also run Haze over Roar if you don't have a lot of hazards, and it actually works better than Roar. Why? Because it allows you to beat set-up sweepers PERMANENTLY as they attempt to stay in... while you slowly whittle away at them. How many walls do you know that can beat CM Reuniclus without taunt? Not many I bet, but Vaporeon will always do it with Haze.

Then there's the fact it also beats defensive threats as well as offensive ones, thanks to its immunity to status and near ambivalence to hazard damage (doesn't count for a lot when you can heal it all off in one turn). It can beat out anything that doesn't taunt it simply by using Toxic then spamming rest.

Oh, and then there's its Scald. People tend to forget that Vaporeon has base 110 SpA (One of the highest of any water type), making its Scalds really damn powerful in the rain, especially for such a defensive Pokemon. Many Pokemon that don't resist it will be 2HKO'd, including Skarmory and Lucario. The burn chance is just icing on the cake.

/end love rant

God I love Vaporeon.

OH and now for a really OVERRATED Pokemon in OU; Forretress. After having fallen into the trap of having used him on team after team, I've finally realized what a worthless piece of crap this thing is. It sees a lot of use because of its unique ability to spin, set up hazards and wall physical attacks all at once. In theory. In practice, it fails at all those jobs. No recovery means that its hazards only get set up once before it goes down most of the time, and then they just get spun away. It can't spin very well because literally every ghost type ever can beat it, and even if the opponent doesn't have a ghost type that lack of recovery means you're very likely to end up getting killed or losing a large chunk of your health trying to do it. And again, that same lack of recovery means it can't wall anything worth a damn either. Its defensive stats just aren't good enough to take repeated hits. Sure you might check a threat once, but then it just switches out none the worse for the wear while Forretress is now down a third or so of its health, being completely unable to get it back. It also has 4MSS like hell. If you want to spin, check stuff and set up hazards, you're left scrambling for moveslots. Rapid Spin is a must because otherwise you should be using Ferrothorn (actually, just use Ferrothorn. Have something else spin), and then you have to chose between more hazards (another reason to use Ferrothorn) or more attacks. If you don't run the right attacks, you get walked all over by opponents. EQ means the many immune Pokemon will come in and set up all over you, but Gyro Ball means Magnezone, Heatran, Starmie, Rotom-W, Scizor, etc. can come in and do whatever the fuck they want to you. Run both and you have to chose between SR, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes, which isn't an easy choice either.

So yeah, basically Ferrothorn is the jack of all trades but the master of jack shit. It can't actually carry out the roles its supposed to, and so belongs left in a dumpster somewhere.

/end hate rant

God this thing has never done anything but disappoint me.
 
i think sub 3 atks hydreigon is WAAAAAAAAAAAY to underrated...this is the set i use
Hydreigon (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 88 HP / 220 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
does wonders vs sand and rain teams (if u aint vs a jirachi in the rain)
this set can sweep entire sand teams with ease if ur in a sub :D
the evs i gave on speed is to reach 282 to outspeed the pokes that run 280 or 282 speed to outspeed pokes like lucario and stuff like that....220 spa evs are enough for hydreigon...the difference of 252 and 220 is like .10%-.20%

damage thats it..and the rest dump it on HP for greater overall bulk along with the subs
 

Dusk209

No relation.
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This, and also scarf + final gambit Victini. So useful for weather wars!

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 114 Atk / 112 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Final Gambit
- V-create
- U-turn
- Fusion Bolt

All of the weather starters have less or the same HP as Victini (except for the rare hippowdon, which is quickly removed by most special attackers.) Another thing that makes Victini great is it's extreme power with V-Create in sun. With V-Create and Final Gambit combined, Victini is sure to get at least 1 KO before it dies. The only thing I am not completely in love with is the dissapointing power of fusion bolt, but it helps with coverage and is good if you don't want to switch out, die, or lower your stats.
 
OH and now for a really OVERRATED Pokemon in OU; Forretress. After having fallen into the trap of having used him on team after team, I've finally realized what a worthless piece of crap this thing is. It sees a lot of use because of its unique ability to spin, set up hazards and wall physical attacks all at once. In theory. In practice, it fails at all those jobs. No recovery means that its hazards only get set up once before it goes down most of the time, and then they just get spun away. It can't spin very well because literally every ghost type ever can beat it, and even if the opponent doesn't have a ghost type that lack of recovery means you're very likely to end up getting killed or losing a large chunk of your health trying to do it. And again, that same lack of recovery means it can't wall anything worth a damn either. Its defensive stats just aren't good enough to take repeated hits. Sure you might check a threat once, but then it just switches out none the worse for the wear while Forretress is now down a third or so of its health, being completely unable to get it back. It also has 4MSS like hell. If you want to spin, check stuff and set up hazards, you're left scrambling for moveslots. Rapid Spin is a must because otherwise you should be using Ferrothorn (actually, just use Ferrothorn. Have something else spin), and then you have to chose between more hazards (another reason to use Ferrothorn) or more attacks. If you don't run the right attacks, you get walked all over by opponents. EQ means the many immune Pokemon will come in and set up all over you, but Gyro Ball means Magnezone, Heatran, Starmie, Rotom-W, Scizor, etc. can come in and do whatever the fuck they want to you. Run both and you have to chose between SR, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes, which isn't an easy choice either.

God this thing has never done anything but disappoint me.
Really? I'd like to respectfully disagree with you here. I used Forretress extensively in Gen IV and it worked wonders, and while I agree it doesn't work as well in Gen V it is still good. Ferrothorn and Forretress have different niches; Ferro can fit on any team but since I play stall Forry tends to do a lot more for me. The Payback nerf means that it has a bit of a hard time against most spinblockers now (in Gen IV it could beat non-HP Fire Gengar and most Starmie!) but it still retains a lot of utility.

Stall teams tend to cover Forry's weaknesses; you should always use it with Wish Support, preferably from Blissey (failing that use Pain Split) and I find specially defensive sets are superior to the physical ones. As for moveset, Rapid Spin is given, Spikes are given, then I usually use both Earthquake and Gyro Ball. I have seen some people use Hidden Power Ice to get around Gliscor (flat 2KO) and Volt Switch, but they're niche moves in my opinion. Of course if your team already has Spikes then just run TS instead. If you want to kill Ghosts, use Payback; the only Ghost types that can now wall it are Jellicent, which, I may add, walls all spinners barring LO Starmie in the Rain, and, of course, Sableye.

Forretress is definitely worse in Gen V, and requires more team support than Ferrothorn, but it fits far better into stall teams in my opinion; there are many walls behind it that can help it. The main misconception when people use Forretress is that it has to do everything, which it doesn't; on a stall team where stealth rock is usually on something else, it can afford to forego it. It can switch in easily, and with Wish support on the field it is around for far longer. Give it a job based on what your team needs and you'll find it can be the jack of that trade.
 

alexwolf

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@Jimera

Forretress doesn't fail to beat every single spin blocker in OU, since it can easily ohko-2hko Gengar with Gyro Ball.
 
@Jimera

Forretress doesn't fail to beat every single spin blocker in OU, since it can easily ohko-2hko Gengar with Gyro Ball.
Sub-Disable = now you have no attacking move and get 2HKO'd by focus blast. Nope, beaten by all the spinblockers in OU. Point stands.
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
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Sub-Disable = now you have no attacking move and get 2HKO'd by focus blast. Nope, beaten by all the spinblockers in OU. Point stands.
Gyro Ball does 65.64 - 77.86% on the switch, and Volt Switch does 16.41 - 19.46%, so after SR you have a pretty good chance to take him down...
 
Nidoking, makes for a great choice scarfer with suck incredible coverage in bolt beam +earth power/fire blast with a timid nature he is faster but slightly less powerful than choice scarf heatran, with modesest he is a slightly slower more powerful heatran.
 
Man, I'm really not keen on the idea of playing OU but someone needs to make a team with Staraptor in because I ran a few calcs and that thing is insanely strong. Let's have a look at it versus the Vaporeon posted earlier compared to some other common Choice Banders:

252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 75% - 88.58%
252 Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 69.83% - 82.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 62.07% - 73.06%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 77.59% - 91.38%

Staraptor is stronger than even Haxorus, self-proclaimed best Choice Bander in OU, and also faster with better coverage. It doesn't get locked in either, although admittedly it does take a lot of recoil, so ideally you want to bring it in without taking damage. Vaporeon will handily beat all of the other Choice Banders, however, with Stealth Rock or a single layer of Spikes, Brave Bird has a 25% chance to straight up OHKO Vappy. Pretty impressive for a neutral attack from a Pokemon that isn't even OU.

Of course, Vaporeon is just one target. Let's see how Staraptor performs against Pokemon that resist Brave Bird, shall we?

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 71.07% - 83.88%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Rotom-W: 46.05% - 54.28%

If offensive Rotom has switched into rocks a couple of times and/or been whittled down by Sandstorm, it's unable to safely come in on Staraptor. On the other hand, even with maximum investment in both HP and Defesne, Staraptor's Brave Bird has a solid chance to 2HKO if Stealth Rock is on the field. Double Edge will obviously remove any sort of Rotom from the game with Stealth Rock on the field.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 45.05% - 53.22%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 50.5% - 59.41%

That's Staraptor's resisted Brave Bird 2HKOing Specially Defensive Jirachi with a little hazard support. Sometimes, it doesn't even need that. Alternatively, Close Combat has a pretty good chance to 2HKO even if there are no hazards on the field. A more offensive Jirachi set will simply be obliterated.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 41.58% - 49.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 185.15% - 218.81%

If Tyranitar invests in HP, it has a pretty good chance of surviving two consecutive Brave Birds or Double Edges even with Stealth Rock on the field. However, a single predicted close combat will completely destroy it, sometimes OHKOing even through Chople and surefire KOing Chople Tyranitar if Stealth Rock is on the field. If it's too risky to use Close Combat, a single U-turn will comfortably bring Tyranitar into 2HKO range while maintaining offensive momentum. A less defensive Tyranitar is obviously even worse off against you, although be careful of Scarftar since it can tank a Brave Bird and outrun you.

I mentioned last time that Skarmory is pretty much the only thing that can safely wall you, but that isn't quite true.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor U-turn vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 5.09% - 5.99%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 31.14% - 36.83%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/4 Def Skarmory: 40.42% - 47.9%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 34.73% - 41.02%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/4 Def Skarmory: 45.51% - 53.59%

What exactly does this tell us? We'll need rocks on the field for sure, but setting rocks shouldn't be an issue for any competent team. The first time Skarmory comes in, we U-turn out to something with will immediately force Skarmory itself to leave the field. This leaves it approximately 12% worse off. The next time we're in, we can either U-turn again if we suspect a Physically Defensive Skarm, or simply Close Combat if we think Skarmory isn't max/max. A Skarm without Defensive investment is easily 2HKO'd by Close Combatwith a single switch into rocks, and often Brave Bird will 2HKO if Skarmory has switched in twice.
Physically defensive Skarm is a tougher prospect - ideally, you want it to have already switched into Stealoth Rock twice before you try to muscle your way through it, which might be too much considering Staraptor's fratility. Of course, this is assuming Skarmory is in perfect condition ready to face Staraptor - if you have other Pokemon to chip away at it, Staraptor has an even easier time. Alternatively, you could just run Magnezone. Even if Skarmory has a shed shell, the lack of Lefties recovery means that after a single U-turn and 2 SR switch-ins, Skarmory is roughly 30% down in the HP stakes. No matter how defensive Skarmory is, Close Combat has an exceptional chance of a 2HKO here, and must roll minimum damage twice in a row to fail.

For something a little different, imagine Conkeldurr gets lucky against your Gliscor and emerges alive and mostly unscathed from a confrontation. It has +2/+2 and the defensive Pokemon you have still alive are insufficient to take it on. Fortunately, instead of choosing the default Haxorus, you went with Staraptor. Here's how it saves you:

252 +2 Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Staraptor: 65.59% - 77.17%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/4 +2 Def Conkeldurr: 92.03% - 108.7%

Even if Stealth Rock is on the field, Mach Punch has less than a 20% chance to kill you. In return, a Conkeldurr even slightly weakened will be obliterated by Staraptor's Brave Bird. Sure, recoil will likely take you down too, but if that's the difference between getting swept and not getting swept, I'd say our bird has done a pretty good job. I'm not suggesting this is a routine use of this Pokemon, but that raw strength combined with a really solid base 100 speed is awesome sometimes.

I mentioned a couple of times that Staraptor has better coverage than other comparable CB Pokemon, and I'll explain why here. A lot of people would say that dragon is the best attacking type in the game, primarily because it only has a single resist. While this is a valid argument, it only takes into account simple type matchup, rather than looking at the metagame itself. The number of dragon resists in OU is 9. The number of flying resists? 7. The number of Flying resists that can take a Close Combat and a Double-Edge without rolling over and dying? 0-3, depending on how you look at it. I already demonstrated how Skarmory can be beaten with smart play. Jirachi and Metagross are even easier because they don't resist U-turn and aren't as bulky as Skarmory itself.
Terrakion is a little different, since the number of Pokemon that can take both his STABs and his most common coverage move is comparably low. However, Stone Edge is, as we all know, a horrible move to have to rely on and will mess up right when you really don't want it too. Staraptor's moves are all 100% accurate, meaning the only thing they'll ever do to mess with you is kill you with recoil. If you're taking recoil, you're doing damage. That means Staraptor is punching holes in the enemy team. I'd say that's mission accomplished, even if you manage to kill yourself. (this isn't actually very hard. Try 'raptor on the ladder, find a team without a good flying resist (ie most of them) and watch recoil from 3-4 KOs sap away all your health)
Obviously, the dragons also have to coverage moves to beat most of their resists, but none of them have a secondary STAB like Double-Edge. I mentioned this before, but it's hilarious how often people look at Staraptor and think "ok. It's going to click Brave Bird, so I better bring in my Rotom to take the hit and then take it out with Scarf Volt switch". You proceed to click Double Edge and steamroll their entire team with a move just as powerful as Brave Bird with a different set of resists. In general, Brave Bird is a better destruction move, because Flying is just the best offensive type in the game, and Normal has a lot more issues to solve. That doesn't mean you won't get sweeps with Double-Edge, though. Hell, against a team with several weakened steels, a Close Combat sweep isn't out of the question either.

The final thing we should probably take a look at is Staraptor's priority. Now, running priority does mean you have to give up the convenience of U-turn, which is a pain where Skarmory is concerned. Provided you have a way to get it to about 70%, though, it's losing to Close Combat anyway, and that means you can free up a slot for Quick Attack. I'm not going to lie, Staraptor's priority doesn't have a patch on nites Extremespeed. I could turn that around, though, and say nite's Outrage doesn't have a patch on Brave Bird :P.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Volcarona: 46.3% - 54.98%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Salamence: 37.16% - 43.81%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Starmie: 44.83% - 52.87%

It's not Bullet Punch, but don't forget that it exists, because it could get you out of a tight spot. It's certaintly stronger than Terrakion's Quick Attack, and he still has a little utility, so don't discount it.


I think that's enough for now. I didn't really go into sets other than Scarf, but this post is long enough. TL;DR: Next time you want a Bander with great speed, coverage and power, take a look at Staraptor. It might be exactly what you're looking for.

Alternative tl;dr: use staraptor people it's fucking strong as shit
 
I loved used Aerodactyl as an OU lead:

Aero @ Focus Sash
Pressure
252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
Jolly

Fire Fang
EQ
Stone Edge
SR

Great anti-weather, fast SR setter, etc.
 
that aero set is a bit redundant, i dont really see how it is anti weather besides discouraging tyranitar, who doesnt even get ohkoed whilst it 2hkos first assuming you sr first turn, its lack of taunt also makes it a rather poor lead as it cannot prevent the opponent setting up sr, which is a big reason to use aero...
 
That set with a sash OHKOs/2HKOs all weather starters, Fire Fang lands nice kills on Scizor when the opponent tries to set-up on it or kill it with BP, and seeing how it's main mission is to set up SR and literally keep pressure on their playstyle from the start Taunt is the "bit redundant" part although it's another choice if you suffer from stall. It all depends if you have a spinner or not, my Rain Spin Starmie jammed nicely with it.
 
That set with a sash OHKOs/2HKOs all weather starters, Fire Fang lands nice kills on Scizor when the opponent tries to set-up on it or kill it with BP, and seeing how it's main mission is to set up SR and literally keep pressure on their playstyle from the start Taunt is the "bit redundant" part although it's another choice if you suffer from stall. It all depends if you have a spinner or not, my Rain Spin Starmie jammed nicely with it.
It only gets a 3KO on Physically Defensive Toed, a very common weather starter...
 
It only gets a 3KO on Physically Defensive Toed, a very common weather starter...
Not the most common Toed and if your a good enough player you'd tell one apart after the damage stats, proceed to SR and then switch/let it die.

It's an SR lead with a crunch, a much better one than Metagross I can say.
 
Politoed EV spreads:

| EVs | 27.7 | 252 SpA / 252 Spe
| EVs | 26.8 | 252 HP / 252 Def
| EVs | 2.2 | 252 HP / ~240 Def

Don't make broad claims without doing research. Bulky Toed is neck-and-neck with special attacking Toed. Furthermore, if Scald burns Aerodactyl it dies without accomplishing jack-shit if you opted to Stone Edge first.

Additionally:

252 Atk Aerodactyl Earthquake vs 252 HP Tyranitar: 43.1% - 51%

I am strongly considering infracting you with a Lurk More right now. Don't give me further reason to do so.
 
A much better Aero set is Hone Claws:

Aerodactyl@ Life Orb
Trait:Pressure
EVs:252 Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

-Hone Claws
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Aqua Tail/ Taunt

Can be a pretty decent late game cleaner once Scizor is gone
 

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
While maybe not the most underrated, Scolipede is exceptionally underrated in OU.

Base 122 Speed; 90 Attack; 89 Defense; STAB Megahorn with Swarm; EQ for Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types; Rock Slide for Flying- and Bug-types; Pursuit; Spikes; Toxic Spikes; Sword Dance; Agility; Iron Defense; and Baton Pass.
Scolipede gets pretty much everything it could ask for but Rapid Spin.

While it's the fastest Toxic Spiker in the game and the 2nd fastest legal Spikes user, only behind the frail Accelgor, it can Sweep and Baton Pass a +2 boost in an instant. The scariest part about Scolipede is that it can do any combination of them. Spikes + Offense, Spikes + Baton Pass, and Offense + Baton Pass are all completely legitimate sets. It can even run all three with Life Orb & Spikes/Megahorn/Baton Pass/the boosting move of it's choice. That adds a huge surprise factor onto Scolipede as it can fill a variety of roles very easily while having room to combine any of them.

Base 112 Speed and Megahorn is a monstrous combination as a Life Orb Megahorn does about 70~80% to anything that doesn't resist it. And then there's Swarm making it even stronger when Scolipede's on it's last leg. It's respectable Defense stat compared to other Pokemon of its Speed ensures it's not going down without a fight which is great for it's Baton Pass sets.

I personally run this set:
Scolipede (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Spikes

I use Spikes on Offensive Teams and T-Spikes on Stall unless Grounded Poison-types are around. I tend to Megahorn first to stir up the waters then lay down Spikes later. Scolipede's definitely the best Pokemon for casual (T-)Spikes as it's so fast that it has no pressure to setup on Pokemon it forces out since the switch-in will probably be slower anyway. It also beats Jirachi bar ParaFlinchhax which is something every other Spiker in the game wishes they could boast. Even SubCM variants have issues as Psyshock isn't taking Scolipede down. EQ also destroys Heatran, which would otherwise has no problems with Megahorn Bugs. Rock Slide, Return, or Double-Edge could replace as hazard if Flying-types get annoying, but I have no problem with them due to my team.

As one of the very few (T-)Spikes users that Tentacruel nor Starmie can switch into freely, Scolipede's definitely a Pokemon that needs more love in OU.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Man, I'm really not keen on the idea of playing OU but someone needs to make a team with Staraptor in because I ran a few calcs and that thing is insanely strong. Let's have a look at it versus the Vaporeon posted earlier compared to some other common Choice Banders:

252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 75% - 88.58%
252 Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 69.83% - 82.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 62.07% - 73.06%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Vaporeon: 77.59% - 91.38%

Staraptor is stronger than even Haxorus, self-proclaimed best Choice Bander in OU, and also faster with better coverage. It doesn't get locked in either, although admittedly it does take a lot of recoil, so ideally you want to bring it in without taking damage. Vaporeon will handily beat all of the other Choice Banders, however, with Stealth Rock or a single layer of Spikes, Brave Bird has a 25% chance to straight up OHKO Vappy. Pretty impressive for a neutral attack from a Pokemon that isn't even OU.

Of course, Vaporeon is just one target. Let's see how Staraptor performs against Pokemon that resist Brave Bird, shall we?

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 71.07% - 83.88%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Rotom-W: 46.05% - 54.28%

If offensive Rotom has switched into rocks a couple of times and/or been whittled down by Sandstorm, it's unable to safely come in on Staraptor. On the other hand, even with maximum investment in both HP and Defesne, Staraptor's Brave Bird has a solid chance to 2HKO if Stealth Rock is on the field. Double Edge will obviously remove any sort of Rotom from the game with Stealth Rock on the field.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 45.05% - 53.22%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 50.5% - 59.41%

That's Staraptor's resisted Brave Bird 2HKOing Specially Defensive Jirachi with a little hazard support. Sometimes, it doesn't even need that. Alternatively, Close Combat has a pretty good chance to 2HKO even if there are no hazards on the field. A more offensive Jirachi set will simply be obliterated.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 41.58% - 49.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 185.15% - 218.81%

If Tyranitar invests in HP, it has a pretty good chance of surviving two consecutive Brave Birds or Double Edges even with Stealth Rock on the field. However, a single predicted close combat will completely destroy it, sometimes OHKOing even through Chople and surefire KOing Chople Tyranitar if Stealth Rock is on the field. If it's too risky to use Close Combat, a single U-turn will comfortably bring Tyranitar into 2HKO range while maintaining offensive momentum. A less defensive Tyranitar is obviously even worse off against you, although be careful of Scarftar since it can tank a Brave Bird and outrun you.

I mentioned last time that Skarmory is pretty much the only thing that can safely wall you, but that isn't quite true.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor U-turn vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 5.09% - 5.99%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 31.14% - 36.83%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/4 Def Skarmory: 40.42% - 47.9%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 34.73% - 41.02%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs 252 HP/4 Def Skarmory: 45.51% - 53.59%

What exactly does this tell us? We'll need rocks on the field for sure, but setting rocks shouldn't be an issue for any competent team. The first time Skarmory comes in, we U-turn out to something with will immediately force Skarmory itself to leave the field. This leaves it approximately 12% worse off. The next time we're in, we can either U-turn again if we suspect a Physically Defensive Skarm, or simply Close Combat if we think Skarmory isn't max/max. A Skarm without Defensive investment is easily 2HKO'd by Close Combatwith a single switch into rocks, and often Brave Bird will 2HKO if Skarmory has switched in twice.
Physically defensive Skarm is a tougher prospect - ideally, you want it to have already switched into Stealoth Rock twice before you try to muscle your way through it, which might be too much considering Staraptor's fratility. Of course, this is assuming Skarmory is in perfect condition ready to face Staraptor - if you have other Pokemon to chip away at it, Staraptor has an even easier time. Alternatively, you could just run Magnezone. Even if Skarmory has a shed shell, the lack of Lefties recovery means that after a single U-turn and 2 SR switch-ins, Skarmory is roughly 30% down in the HP stakes. No matter how defensive Skarmory is, Close Combat has an exceptional chance of a 2HKO here, and must roll minimum damage twice in a row to fail.

For something a little different, imagine Conkeldurr gets lucky against your Gliscor and emerges alive and mostly unscathed from a confrontation. It has +2/+2 and the defensive Pokemon you have still alive are insufficient to take it on. Fortunately, instead of choosing the default Haxorus, you went with Staraptor. Here's how it saves you:

252 +2 Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Staraptor: 65.59% - 77.17%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs 252 HP/4 +2 Def Conkeldurr: 92.03% - 108.7%

Even if Stealth Rock is on the field, Mach Punch has less than a 20% chance to kill you. In return, a Conkeldurr even slightly weakened will be obliterated by Staraptor's Brave Bird. Sure, recoil will likely take you down too, but if that's the difference between getting swept and not getting swept, I'd say our bird has done a pretty good job. I'm not suggesting this is a routine use of this Pokemon, but that raw strength combined with a really solid base 100 speed is awesome sometimes.

I mentioned a couple of times that Staraptor has better coverage than other comparable CB Pokemon, and I'll explain why here. A lot of people would say that dragon is the best attacking type in the game, primarily because it only has a single resist. While this is a valid argument, it only takes into account simple type matchup, rather than looking at the metagame itself. The number of dragon resists in OU is 9. The number of flying resists? 7. The number of Flying resists that can take a Close Combat and a Double-Edge without rolling over and dying? 0-3, depending on how you look at it. I already demonstrated how Skarmory can be beaten with smart play. Jirachi and Metagross are even easier because they don't resist U-turn and aren't as bulky as Skarmory itself.
Terrakion is a little different, since the number of Pokemon that can take both his STABs and his most common coverage move is comparably low. However, Stone Edge is, as we all know, a horrible move to have to rely on and will mess up right when you really don't want it too. Staraptor's moves are all 100% accurate, meaning the only thing they'll ever do to mess with you is kill you with recoil. If you're taking recoil, you're doing damage. That means Staraptor is punching holes in the enemy team. I'd say that's mission accomplished, even if you manage to kill yourself. (this isn't actually very hard. Try 'raptor on the ladder, find a team without a good flying resist (ie most of them) and watch recoil from 3-4 KOs sap away all your health)
Obviously, the dragons also have to coverage moves to beat most of their resists, but none of them have a secondary STAB like Double-Edge. I mentioned this before, but it's hilarious how often people look at Staraptor and think "ok. It's going to click Brave Bird, so I better bring in my Rotom to take the hit and then take it out with Scarf Volt switch". You proceed to click Double Edge and steamroll their entire team with a move just as powerful as Brave Bird with a different set of resists. In general, Brave Bird is a better destruction move, because Flying is just the best offensive type in the game, and Normal has a lot more issues to solve. That doesn't mean you won't get sweeps with Double-Edge, though. Hell, against a team with several weakened steels, a Close Combat sweep isn't out of the question either.

The final thing we should probably take a look at is Staraptor's priority. Now, running priority does mean you have to give up the convenience of U-turn, which is a pain where Skarmory is concerned. Provided you have a way to get it to about 70%, though, it's losing to Close Combat anyway, and that means you can free up a slot for Quick Attack. I'm not going to lie, Staraptor's priority doesn't have a patch on nites Extremespeed. I could turn that around, though, and say nite's Outrage doesn't have a patch on Brave Bird :P.

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Volcarona: 46.3% - 54.98%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Salamence: 37.16% - 43.81%
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Starmie: 44.83% - 52.87%

It's not Bullet Punch, but don't forget that it exists, because it could get you out of a tight spot. It's certaintly stronger than Terrakion's Quick Attack, and he still has a little utility, so don't discount it.


I think that's enough for now. I didn't really go into sets other than Scarf, but this post is long enough. TL;DR: Next time you want a Bander with great speed, coverage and power, take a look at Staraptor. It might be exactly what you're looking for.

Alternative tl;dr: use staraptor people it's fucking strong as shit
Shrug. Staraptor is basically better than haxorus because it can't be revenge killed after being forced into outrage. But, it really can't muscle through skarmory, because if "any competent team can lay down rocks" then that includes the other team as well. So they'll have rocks, and you will die before skarmory will be muscle-able. I suppose the rest of what you're saying is accurate, though.
 
I find sawk underrated. It may be outclassed by other fighting types, but it's niches are what set it apart. In OU it is a fine revenge killer or wall breaker with the proper choice item. Plus sturdy makes it viable for a counter user which helps when needing something to stop a boosted physical attacker. It has usable attack coverage as well. It can use Close Combat, Rock slide/Stone edge, and Earthquake with a changeable fourth slot. It has the power to go toe to toe with Some of OU's Finest. Can muscle through pokemon when priority isn't an issue except for skarmory and gliscor. So If you want a fighting type. At least consider sawk for its niches. You won't be disappointed if you at least try it.
 
I find sawk underrated. It may be outclassed by other fighting types, but it's niches are what set it apart. In OU it is a fine revenge killer or wall breaker with the proper choice item. Plus sturdy makes it viable for a counter user which helps when needing something to stop a boosted physical attacker. It has usable attack coverage as well. It can use Close Combat, Rock slide/Stone edge, and Earthquake with a changeable fourth slot. It has the power to go toe to toe with Some of OU's Finest. Can muscle through pokemon when priority isn't an issue except for skarmory and gliscor. So If you want a fighting type. At least consider sawk for its niches. You won't be disappointed if you at least try it.
My only issue is that to keep Sturdy active you have to run a Rapid Spinner alongside Sawk. Magic Bouncers have good synergy but will rely on high prediction. I would much rather use something like Magic Guard Sash Zam (with Charge Beam) that fills a very similar role.
 
I've been using Cradily is UU for a while so I decided to try it in OU the other day and hot damn It has exactly zero fucks to give. It's stupid bulky in the sand I run a set of calm@lefites 252HP,4Def,252 spDef with curse, rest, sleep talk, and seed bomb. In sand iirc it has about 570 special defense, I've seen him shrug off LO porygon-Z's ice beams like it ain't no thing. Remember that PZ has 35 more base attack than starmie the most common ice beam wielder in OU. But what about terrakion you say after a curse or 2 Cradily can take a CC and easily KO with seed bomb. Attempts to phase it are futil as suction cups just gives you a free turn to curse. Rest makes status ineffective as well. With toxic spikes it can basically stall out anything. Most steels are PP stalled, or you can run rock slide to do more to hetran and scarm. So go give him a shot you won't be disappointed.
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Also, why are you using Calm on a physical set? Also also, Grass is garbage as a mono-attacking type, so I'd suggest Recover+coverage instead of RestTalk.
 
Slowbro@Leftovers
Bold
Regenerator
252 HP/120 SpA/136 Def
-Calm Mind
-Slack Off
-Surf/Fire Blast
-Psyshock

Or the same thing but with CM replaced with Toxic, Fire Blast, Surf, etc. Tons of options.

Regenerator and great defense really makes it a great wall/tank. It also has the ability to take Terrakion's moves, which not many walls have the merit of saying. Not to mention, it has access to Fire Blast, making Nattorei think twice before he switches in unlike other bulky waters.
 

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