Thanks for bringing this up shrang
. Against a slower Arceus, Gengar with Substitute does
have a slight advantage. Disable is not even necessary for some scenarios! During my Gengar testing, I found Substitute to be quite useful for dealing with Life Orb variants. Assuming Gengar was at a reasonable HP, it could just keep subbing (Avoiding all mindgames entirely) until Extreme Killer was in KO range of Focus Blast. A possible miss wasn't pleasant though.
Against variants without Life Orb, I found SubDisable Gengar to be way
too shaky for comfort. The Substitute / Disable mindgame isn't the most reliable method for checking Extreme Killer. Even with the possibility of multiple attempts, one wrong prediction messes it up for Gengar.
There are other factors too. Recover variants makes the mindgame even worse. Focus Blast has an unfortunate tendency to miss. Of course, faster variants render Gengar useless.
In short, SubDisable Gengar is not that reliable compared to other more solid checks. It's a bit situational and very flimsy.
I may be wrong about Gengar usefulness as a check. I did find its SubDisable set a bit useful against (slower) Life Orb variants. Let's examine the facts about SubDisable Gengar.
Pros for SubDisable Gengar being mentioned as a check:
Cons for SubDisable Gengar being mentioned as a check:
- Can switch into many of Extreme Killer's moves.
- Surprise factor.
- Can possible defeat slower Life Orb variants without any mindgames.
- If the mindgame works, Extreme Killer will likely switch out.
- Focus Blast can possibly revenge slower variants.
- Gengar is obscure.
- Gengar has to play a dangerous mindgame against non-Life Orb variants. This mindgame is a bit unreliable, which makes Gengar a very flimsy check. Other moves like Overheat / Recover makes the mindgame even worse.
- Only "works" against variants which are slower.
- Gengar relies on Focus Blast for damage. Its accuracy isn't the best.
- Can't switch into Shadow Claw at all (Or Overheat).
- Gengar isn't exactly the most ideal Pokemon to use in Ubers.
I can see why Gengar might be considered a "check." But I can also see how Gengar might not warrant a mention.
If you want some more elaboration/details, check my reply to Poppy
in Post #16 of this thread.
For the time being, Gengar will not be mentioned aside from a general Choice Scarf Trick/Destiny Bond mention. Unless QC seriously
agrees to Gengar being mentioned as specific check as well as others like Durant, Physically Defensive Gyarados
, Chilan Berry users who can possibly OHKO Extreme Killer like Conkeldurr Low Kick, etc., it is likely Gengar won't be mentioned. There can only be so many “checks” before it becomes convoluted.
for all your input.