Smogon Community - View Single Post - Ho-Oh Revamp: QC 3/3

Anikrahman1995 · Aug 26th, 2012, 12:34:10 PM

Physical attacker:
"<p>Choosing between Flame Charge and Tailwind is tough. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh, after a single use of Tailwind can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 172 Speed EVs. "

This should be 176 evs.
Shouldnt regenerator be the ability on the other sets as well?

@Mr.lol.....The stealth rock thing. Isnt it sort of weird that we talk about Ho-Oh checking things at 50% health? I mean its fine on most pokemon. Example: LO Brave Bird OHKOs Kyogre after stealth rock(12.5% health is deducted from Kyogre's health). etc etc. I am not sure what I am trying to say here. I find it awkward that everytime Ho-Oh is mentioned as a check/counter......"If stealth rock is off the field" needs to be added.

I actually like the spread of 248 hp / 178 Atk / 84 Spe. Ho-oh, unlike the other defensive base 90s needs the speed. Another spread that needs to be mentioned is 248/252/8(the old spread on the tank set) with a life orb. This allows it to win vs Dragon Tail Giratina(BB 3hkos with some average-high rolls).

Did calculation and it 3hkos on average.
394 Atk vs 372 Def & 503 HP (120 Base Power): 178 - 210 (35.39% - 41.75%)
Average damage: 38.17%
2 hits do 76.34
With two round of leftovers, Giratina will be at 63.84%
Add another average damage and you get 102.01%
Even if Ho-Oh gets below average rolls, all it needs to do is to have substitute intact and roost on the turn Giratina uses rest. During this time, Giratina wont be able to do anything to Ho-Oh, so it will eventually be beaten.

Ho-Oh vs Latios:
252Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh (+Atk) Flame Charge in Sun vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Latios (Neutral): 34% - 41% (105 - 124 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh (+Atk) Sacred Fire in Sun vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Latios (Neutral): 69% - 82% (210 - 248 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

This way Flame Charge Ho-Oh can check Latios.
I am not calculating thunder as it is inaccurate in sun, so Latios will most likely use Draco Meteor.
252SpAtk Soul Dew Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Ho-Oh (Neutral): 66% - 78% (235 - 277 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Ho-Oh doesnt die even after Draco Meteor and 2 round of LO recoil. Ho-Oh is also great at weakening Draco Meteors.

Aug 26th, 2012, 12:34:10 PM	#2
Anikrahman1995 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 355 In my bedroom	Physical attacker: "<p>Choosing between Flame Charge and Tailwind is tough. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh, after a single use of Tailwind can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 172 Speed EVs. " This should be 176 evs. Shouldnt regenerator be the ability on the other sets as well? @Mr.lol.....The stealth rock thing. Isnt it sort of weird that we talk about Ho-Oh checking things at 50% health? I mean its fine on most pokemon. Example: LO Brave Bird OHKOs Kyogre after stealth rock(12.5% health is deducted from Kyogre's health). etc etc. I am not sure what I am trying to say here. I find it awkward that everytime Ho-Oh is mentioned as a check/counter......"If stealth rock is off the field" needs to be added. I actually like the spread of 248 hp / 178 Atk / 84 Spe. Ho-oh, unlike the other defensive base 90s needs the speed. Another spread that needs to be mentioned is 248/252/8(the old spread on the tank set) with a life orb. This allows it to win vs Dragon Tail Giratina(BB 3hkos with some average-high rolls). Did calculation and it 3hkos on average. 394 Atk vs 372 Def & 503 HP (120 Base Power): 178 - 210 (35.39% - 41.75%) Average damage: 38.17% 2 hits do 76.34 With two round of leftovers, Giratina will be at 63.84% Add another average damage and you get 102.01% Even if Ho-Oh gets below average rolls, all it needs to do is to have substitute intact and roost on the turn Giratina uses rest. During this time, Giratina wont be able to do anything to Ho-Oh, so it will eventually be beaten. Ho-Oh vs Latios: 252Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh (+Atk) Flame Charge in Sun vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Latios (Neutral): 34% - 41% (105 - 124 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh (+Atk) Sacred Fire in Sun vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Latios (Neutral): 69% - 82% (210 - 248 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. This way Flame Charge Ho-Oh can check Latios. I am not calculating thunder as it is inaccurate in sun, so Latios will most likely use Draco Meteor. 252SpAtk Soul Dew Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Ho-Oh (Neutral): 66% - 78% (235 - 277 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Ho-Oh doesnt die even after Draco Meteor and 2 round of LO recoil. Ho-Oh is also great at weakening Draco Meteors. Last edited by Anikrahman1995; Aug 26th, 2012 at 1:05:18 PM.