Originally Posted by Fat alkinesthetase
i believed this was the case as well, in which case the banning of sand veil would have a cause/effect relationship with the unbanning of garchomp (ie sand veil is banned, THEREFORE garchomp no longer needs to be banned).
however there are also people who hold the reverse opinion, which is that we want garchomp back because it can potentially improve the game (not my opinion), but to bring it back we first need to ban sand veil otherwise it will "probably remain uber" (not my opinion), ie "garchomp is unbanned, THEREFORE sand veil needs to be banned". what i want to know is which of these positions is correct, or if there is a third one that i am missing
The more I see this thread the more I want a complex ban of Garchomp/Sand Veil.... and I hate complex bans like these.
Originally Posted by Fat Skore
Whether that's down to Sand Veil alone is the debatable point.
I come down on the side of Sand Veil + pokemon with good enough typing etc to use it = unbalanced but Sand Veil + mediocre pokemon = mediocre pokemon with Sand Veil.
This, this, and more of this. Sand Veil isn't inherently broken on it's own. It takes a special pokemon like Garchomp who's stats and Typing is perfect for it to abuse Sand Veil. Imagine if Something like Dragonite got Magic Guard. Suddenly Dragonite can switch in on stealth rock and sandstorm, It can properly abuse Life Orb, and with it's stat's spread, typing, and HUGE movepool, I could imagine it being damn broken. Is that Magic Guard's fault? I don't think so. Reuniclus isn't broken with it, Alakazam isn't broken with it, hell Clefable isn't broken with it. Dragonite just has the things it needs to abuse Magic Guard. That's what Sand Veil is to Garchomp. Something it can properly abuse to the point of being broken.