Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Sewa
It's the same thing I was trying to say before I got silenced for the second time. We are looking at that 20% chance of not attacking as a game-breaking hax, but this is ridicolous when you have a monster like Jirachi (hey, Steel type, 600 BST like Chomp, way MORE versatile than chomp) that sits there and flinches you to death after.
Someone said that you HAVE to do something to activate the hax: you have to paralyze your target and you have to use Iron Head to flinch it, while with Sand Veil you have to do nothing. Well, it's not true: you HAVE to win the weather war, and in this meta with rain (stab rain-boosted hydropumps annihilate Hippowdon and LO superpower takes care of Tyranitar) I find it extremely hard, you HAVE to equip your Gliscor/Chomp with an inferior, non 100% sure ability, you HAVE to use substitute waiting for your enemy to miss dat scald/ice beam and after this you'll still have some chances (roughly 1/3) to fail this "game-breaking" strategy while.
I don't think Sand Veil is broken, not even on Chomp.
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Do you see how this is pretty much entirely false or irrelevant to the actual argument?
1) you don't have to have the weather war "won" to have sand up for a period of turns. In these instances, while the weather war is being fought, there can easily be sand up, in which sand veil happens.
2) sand stream is a passive effect. Sand being up does not constrain the user's turn. Having to use a specific high secondary chance move, or using scald that turn, or forcing volcarona to be hit by a contact move DO constrain that turn. They force the turn for their effects. Sand veil, or any other evasion ability, does not.
3) the pokemon with sand veil DOESN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. It can do whatever the hell it wants, as the only condition that needs to be met is you attempting to kill it. It can attack while relying on sand veil to escape damage, or use a support move, or set up, or anything, while relying on sand veil. There is nothing they have to do--and can thus do ANYTHING--and that's the problem.
I would consider the same for snow veil, but whatever.