Smogon Community - View Single Post - CAP 4 - Part 1

Sep 11th, 2012, 1:47:50 AM

Name: Troll Evolution?

General Description: Remember when we first saw the designs for Alomomola and Bouffalant and swore up and down that they must be evolutions for Luvdisc and Tauros respectively, but then it turns out we were just being trolled? Essentially, we'll be making one of those troll Pokemon, except that the similarity to [insert existing Pokemon X] should extend beyond the mere visual design and into mechanical niche.

Justification: While there are many ways to succeed in the execution of this concept, I think that the most compelling and rewarding are indeed the possible scenarios where we use it as an opportunity to introduce a new viable niche to the OU metagame by improving, modifying, and/or expanding upon a niche that already exists on a Pokemon that simply cannot compete well enough for it and its niche to already be considered viable in the OU metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:
* What are competitive niches that CAP might normally overlook creating, because those niches are already deemed to have failed in existing Pokemon?
* Which competitively nonviable Pokemon have niches that would be new and desirable to the OU metagame if they could be pulled off by a new, more viable Pokemon?
* Why does [insert existing Pokemon X] fail to viably bring its niche to OU, and what would it take to bring that unique niche to OU successfully?

Explanation:
Okay, so this is actually a synthesis of a bunch of different inspirations. The first major inspiration that this draws from is the EVO Project, a failed CAP project between DPP's CAP4 and CAP5. The second major inspiration that this draws from is the concept of using CAP to improve or "fix" existing Pokemon, an idea which CAP has consistently (and correctly, in my opinion) rejected. Finally, the third major inspiration that this draws from is articles from The Smog like this and this, each written by great CAP contributors.

Basically, this concept is intended to fulfill part of the purposes of all of those concepts but without any of the baggage. By creating a troll Pokemon, we are free to explore the idea of messing with what existing Pokemon have done without feeling required in any way to adhere to attributes of those Pokemon that do not serve our purposes. For example, one of the major constraints of the EVO Project was that the move-pool of the new evolution would necessarily include all moves in the move-pools of the existing Pokemon, but because the Pokemon here would not actually be related to our base Pokemon in any way, that would not be a concern.

The interesting thing about this concept, in my opinion, is that it incorporates elements both competitive and flavorful. That is, the members of the community can get excited about it and interested in the project even if they're not yet well versed in some of the competitive aspects of the game, and I think that will be good for participation without compromising the competitive focus that CAP is intended to have.

There are as many possible avenues to take when exploring this concept as there are existing Pokemon, though I have to stress that the existing base Pokemon we should draw inspiration from (the "existing Pokemon X" referred to above) should be one that we can easily judge to already have a unique niche that just needs to be refined. We could make a Shuckle-like mixed-wall Pokemon with recovery moves and better typing. We could make an Ampharos-like Pokemon, a slow and bulky Electric set-up sweeper. We could even play this backwards and create something like a trolling-not-really-prevo for an Uber Pokemon like Groudon to bring their style down to OU (because I know everybody wants that Drought-CAP). And these are just off of the top of my head.

EDIT: I just want to call out some of the other concepts most interesting to me.

Meganium Sulfate's "Alternate Forms" is actually close to something that I was considering submitting myself, and I still think that it'd make a very neat CAP. I even asked some CAP leaders on IRC before if there would be any objection to allowing an ability like Forecast or a move like Relic Song to function for a CAP even though they normally do not function at all except for with their intended Pokemon, and there didn't seem to be any objection.

forestflamerunner's "Dare To Be Different" sounds very intriguing to me. I'm skeptical that it could be pulled off easily, but a challenge isn't bad.

Clankenator007's "Taking an Uber Down a Notch" is an interesting and original take on similar concepts. The "Justification" section is going to need to be better developed, though.

Sep 11th, 2012, 1:47:50 AM	#30
Asylum_Rhapsody Guest Posts: n/a	Name: Troll Evolution? General Description: Remember when we first saw the designs for Alomomola and Bouffalant and swore up and down that they must be evolutions for Luvdisc and Tauros respectively, but then it turns out we were just being trolled? Essentially, we'll be making one of those troll Pokemon, except that the similarity to [insert existing Pokemon X] should extend beyond the mere visual design and into mechanical niche. Justification: While there are many ways to succeed in the execution of this concept, I think that the most compelling and rewarding are indeed the possible scenarios where we use it as an opportunity to introduce a new viable niche to the OU metagame by improving, modifying, and/or expanding upon a niche that already exists on a Pokemon that simply cannot compete well enough for it and its niche to already be considered viable in the OU metagame. Questions To Be Answered: * What are competitive niches that CAP might normally overlook creating, because those niches are already deemed to have failed in existing Pokemon? * Which competitively nonviable Pokemon have niches that would be new and desirable to the OU metagame if they could be pulled off by a new, more viable Pokemon? * Why does [insert existing Pokemon X] fail to viably bring its niche to OU, and what would it take to bring that unique niche to OU successfully? Explanation: Okay, so this is actually a synthesis of a bunch of different inspirations. The first major inspiration that this draws from is the EVO Project, a failed CAP project between DPP's CAP4 and CAP5. The second major inspiration that this draws from is the concept of using CAP to improve or "fix" existing Pokemon, an idea which CAP has consistently (and correctly, in my opinion) rejected. Finally, the third major inspiration that this draws from is articles from The Smog like this and this, each written by great CAP contributors. Basically, this concept is intended to fulfill part of the purposes of all of those concepts but without any of the baggage. By creating a troll Pokemon, we are free to explore the idea of messing with what existing Pokemon have done without feeling required in any way to adhere to attributes of those Pokemon that do not serve our purposes. For example, one of the major constraints of the EVO Project was that the move-pool of the new evolution would necessarily include all moves in the move-pools of the existing Pokemon, but because the Pokemon here would not actually be related to our base Pokemon in any way, that would not be a concern. The interesting thing about this concept, in my opinion, is that it incorporates elements both competitive and flavorful. That is, the members of the community can get excited about it and interested in the project even if they're not yet well versed in some of the competitive aspects of the game, and I think that will be good for participation without compromising the competitive focus that CAP is intended to have. There are as many possible avenues to take when exploring this concept as there are existing Pokemon, though I have to stress that the existing base Pokemon we should draw inspiration from (the "existing Pokemon X" referred to above) should be one that we can easily judge to already have a unique niche that just needs to be refined. We could make a Shuckle-like mixed-wall Pokemon with recovery moves and better typing. We could make an Ampharos-like Pokemon, a slow and bulky Electric set-up sweeper. We could even play this backwards and create something like a trolling-not-really-prevo for an Uber Pokemon like Groudon to bring their style down to OU (because I know everybody wants that Drought-CAP). And these are just off of the top of my head. EDIT: I just want to call out some of the other concepts most interesting to me. Meganium Sulfate's "Alternate Forms" is actually close to something that I was considering submitting myself, and I still think that it'd make a very neat CAP. I even asked some CAP leaders on IRC before if there would be any objection to allowing an ability like Forecast or a move like Relic Song to function for a CAP even though they normally do not function at all except for with their intended Pokemon, and there didn't seem to be any objection. forestflamerunner's "Dare To Be Different" sounds very intriguing to me. I'm skeptical that it could be pulled off easily, but a challenge isn't bad. Clankenator007's "Taking an Uber Down a Notch" is an interesting and original take on similar concepts. The "Justification" section is going to need to be better developed, though. Last edited by Asylum_Rhapsody; Sep 11th, 2012 at 2:49:14 AM.