A_R, at the risk of being a jerk... you advanced my point. The only benefit to No Guard you pointed out is that it REDUCES LUCK. As I said was all had been pointed out before...
This is
not equivalent to enhancing risk. We agreed that Hustle was not a viable option on this CAP as accuracy-modifying was NOT considered to have anything to do with riskiness. By that same principle, No Guard's accuracy affecting nature should be rejected.
Provide ONE good way that No Guard actually enhances risk. NOT reduces luck as has now been done countless times.
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat ZhengTann
Why can't we see that No Guard is dependent on CAP4's movepool to create rewards, just as Weak Armor is dependent on statsbuilds?
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Basically, people are arguing wildly in favor of No Guard without looking ahead. We will then either give CAP4 only very accurate moves, in which case No Guard will be an awful option since it is purely detrimental by making opponents Stone Edges/Fire Blasts/etc never miss or we will give CAP4 moves such as Hypnosis, Megahorn, (heck lets go whole hog and say Zap Cannon) and CAP4 will be DEFINED by No Guard. I cannot see a middle ground under any circumstance in which No Guard doesn't either define the CAP or absolutely suck.
That some people are rejecting Weak Armor or Unburden or Flare/Toxic Boost offhand because they would potentially define CAP4 yet support No Guard is frankly idiotic.
ADDITION:
In my opinion I have no need to defend my position that No Guard fails to enhance risk as I have no position to argue against. There has been zero well-articulated argument in favor of No Guard that is not luck-based, as yours was. (You claim it wasn't yet your ENTIRE argument was based around accuracy - aka luck. That's not a personal attack. Of course your argument was luck-based, because that is all No Guard affects.)
A true fair argument for risk in competitive Pokemon should be much more global and match-based. Now I'm not going to claim that Drifblim is OU-usable. It's NU for a multitude of reasons. However, there are enough benefits to a Calm Minding ChestoResto Unburden set or an AcroGem Unburden set to offset Drifblim's poor defense and poor offensive typing that Unburden Drifblim is usable as high as UU.
Any time you add any given Pokemon in a teambuilding process the goal should always be that that Pokemon fills holes on the team and hopefully can be traded 1-1 (or better) in such a way that enables one of the other five teammates to do better. For example, carry a 3rd Gen HP Bug Dugtrio to trap and KO Celebi so your Medicham has an easier time. In the extreme you have 4Drag2Mag strategies.
Now a Pokemon with No Guard carries very little to no risk in this context. For a clear example, see Lead Machamp in Gen 4. It was essentially used as a 1 for 1 (or 1 for SR) strategy. Now I'm not saying CAP4 will get DynamicPunch, but it will get SOMETHING with low accuracy-high reward, else No Guard just makes no sense at all from a logical standpoint.
So why's Unburden Drifblim risky even in the depth that is NU? Drifblim actually carries the risk of being entirely ineffective. If an opponent carries an Absol or Skuntank, ChestoResto Drifblim is useless before Absol/Skuntank is eliminated as Sucker Punch OHKOes. (Yes, AcroGem Drifblim runs Will-o-Wisp and Substitute for that precise purpose, but this is hardly relevant to my point anymore.) That being said, against an unprepared opponent, or after proper preparation, Drifblim easily has the capability to sweep whole teams.
Risk is a global concept. If a Pokemon has the potential to either be fodder or take out 2+ opponents depending on set and matchup - THAT is risk.