Not going to be a long post, but I'd like to side with SJCrew here. The issue with Nidoqueen is that all these things she's supposed to be countering- she can't switch in to them more than once. All these scenarios are using her as a revenge killer when she has 100% health against offensive threats- which she SHOULD be used as. However, Nidoking is NOT a wall or bulky offensive poke that will live a hit and destroy an offensive threat. Nidoking is used as a wallbreaker- it kills Bronzong, Blastoise, Hitmontop switching in, 2HKO's Cofag even at +1 after rocks, and it nearly impossible to switch in to.
I'm seeing the arguing here as a comparison between something like Mesprit and Uxie- sure, they're the same type, have the same (or nearly the same) movepool, but you're saying Mesprit isn't as good as Uxie because it can't live as many hits. Of course not, you're using Mesprit because you want more of an offensive presence and don't necessarily need the ability to tank as many hits.
Also, I'd like to point out that ALL these scenarios where we're mentioning just how bulky Queen is and just how lame King is at tanking things are considering they're switching in at full health. As soon as Queen switches into one hit from anything with a half decent attack stat, she's taking some damage. And as soon as she takes ~25% damage, she becomes a Nidoking at full health minus the extra firepower and speed. Even Bronzong can wreck her chances of switching into fighting types by just EQ'ing. And a lot of the other calcs shown where Queen lives by the skin of her teeth and King dies because the attack did 107% are kind of silly. Yeah, King is always going to die, but when Queen takes that 86%, she's just death fodder at that point- can't outspeed anything with any offensive presence, and two more switches are death to her, anyway.
To be specific- I believe there was something like an 18% differential when it came to tanking a +1 Raikou's HP Ice. What happens if your Nidoqueen has to be used at any point over the course of the entire battle to take a single hit because you're using it on your team as more of a defensive/bulky thing? Yeah, it dies. Not to mention that dealing with +1 Raikou means it has had time to set up, and might have a sub/set up another calm mind as you switch. Whoops, now it's a +2 Raikou and you die, anyway. I don't think that's what is considered "significantly better at checking electric types".
EDIT: I looked into it. Your Nidoqueen switches in to a +1 Raikou, that Raikou doesn't care and sets up another CM. You launch an Earth Power. 55% damage. Then lefties/sweeping at +2. If your opponent is greedy, then that Raikou Calm Minds again because it doesn't care. 45% damage. Then lefties. And now your team has to face a base 115 speed sweeper at +3 SpAtk and SpDef. Nidoking stops that greedy opponent dead in their tracks. It's also a lot easier to take down a Raikou at 35% health than a Raikou at 50% health with priority moves.
As a wallbreaker/attacker with awesome coverage/shell smash recipient, Nidoking is by far the better choice, and probably the best in the tier as far as that role goes.
I'm not saying Nidoking is by far better than Queen or that he's even much better than her- I'm saying he's A tier at least. Slowbro is a wall that's supposed to take on fighting types but still loses to Heracross a lot of the time and takes a hefty chunk when dealing with Mienshao (bug type attacks say hi). Wait, it's supposed to counter the same mons Queen does, but it does a worse job? Must be B rank. Wait, but that doesn't make sense! King has the best coverage, the most power, and the ability to just put out massive amounts of damage every battle when given the right opportunities. Queen has different opportunities that sometimes leave her hurt- King comes in when it's safe and does more damage.
Last edited by Cesterp; Oct 4th, 2012 at 5:12:02 PM.