Smogon Community - View Single Post - CAP 4 - Part 6

**capefeather** · Oct 7th, 2012, 4:44:12 PM

Final Submission

110 HP / 120 Atk / 99 Def / 117 SpA / 60 SpD / 94 Spe

PT: 185.8420 (Excellent)
ST: 116.5717 (Above Average)
PS: 194.8939 (Excellent)
SS: 193.0895 (Excellent)
BSR: 390.1675 (Excellent)

Attack / Special Attack

Speed

As it turns out, CAP 4 can already murder most of the most relevant Pokémon above 100 Base Speed, notably excluding Therian Tornadus. One could argue that potentially losing to Therian Tornadus is bad when CAP 4 could already face trouble with Politoed, but both are still maimed pretty badly, especially if Stealth Rock is involved. At any rate, I originally wanted a faster CAP 4, going with 122 at first and then dropping it below Latios, then below Terrakion. I particularly wanted to go over Genesect to ensure that CAP 4 would want to run a +Speed nature, and to ensure that it could outrun an extremely common Choice Scarf user with a Weak Armour boost. Yet, since I really didn't want to touch the Special Attack, I settled with the unique 94 Base Speed (the maximum possible under the limits is 95). This at the very least outruns Therian Landorus.

I do think that CAP 4 really needs a decent amount of Speed, not in spite of Weak Armour, but because of it. People think that a higher Base Speed will make Choice Scarf more appealing than Weak Armour, but when we look at existing Pokémon around this Speed range, we see that Choice Scarf sets are not all that popular. Genesect and Therian Landorus are the only Pokémon in the 90s Speed range that commonly carry a Choice Scarf, followed maybe by Haxorus. (Notice that all of these Pokémon are significantly more powerful than this stat spread submission, PLUS the first two have U-turn.) I think that this is largely due to the greater appeal of other items that do more for a Pokémon in that range than a Choice Scarf will achieve (not to mention the choice lock), especially with Choice Scarf Genesect on the prowl.

Let's face it, we have to consider that Choice Scarf users can still revenge a +1 boosted CAP 4 at any time. 94 is still a very inconvenient Speed tier, yet a Weak Armour boost will, at least, put it above many of the important Choice Scarf users, except perhaps the most common ones like Genesect and Terrakion (and I'd rather stick with my Special Attack than emulate Korski's submission). 94 Base Speed makes a Speed boost from Weak Armour much desired as well as very rewarding. It is also not so slow as to make Illusion and No Guard less viable. All of these abilities benefit from a decently high Speed stat. We shouldn't be putting so much unneeded focus on Weak Armour that we hurt CAP 4's viability, which would defeat the whole purpose.

Defenses

CAP 4's defenses have the following notable effects:

252 Atk Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 330-390 (91.41 - 108.03%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO.

252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 238-282 (65.92 - 78.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

64 Atk Adamant Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 230-272 (63.71 - 75.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

252 SpA Thundurus-T Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 187-222 (51.8 - 61.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

0 SpA Politoed Scald (Rain) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 180-213 (49.86 - 59%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO.

+1 252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 221-261 (61.21 - 72.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but NOT a OHKO after Stealth Rock.

The Stone Edge calculations reflect some amusing situations I see with CAP 4 and Weak Armour. If CAP 4 switches into Stone Edge and it misses, then it doesn't get the Speed boost, but it also has much more HP left and it could actually have, say, Choice Scarf Therian Landorus wondering if it should try another Stone Edge. On the other hand, if Stone Edge hits and CAP 4 survives, it now outruns Therian Landorus, though it will still only have one attack left due to Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock if both are in play. A similar situation could be achieved with other common users of Stone Edge, as well as if Choice Scarf Terrakion attempts to revenge kill a completely healthy CAP 4.

The calculation from Genesect, combined with the calculation of a hypothetical neutral attack on Genesect in the Attack / Special Attack section, gives a picture of what CAP 4 versus Choice Scarf Genesect might look like with this spread. Genesect is not going to switch into CAP 4 with ease, since that coverage move will take off most of its HP. In that situation, it has to use Bug Buzz or Flamethrower to try to finish off CAP 4, otherwise it doesn't KO and it goes down. It could still switch in to revenge kill, but with the imposed limits, CAP 4 can't do everything. CAP 4 can also OHKO Terrakion and Latios, two common Choice Scarf users, so that they also only get a safe switch-in after an ally goes down.

The HP was chosen largely to regulate the BST. I had qualms about going over 86 (Yanmega), but I decided on 110 because it matched fellow Weak Armour holder Mandibuzz. I suppose it can also take advantage of certain moves, but that's for the movepool stage to decide.

This spread has been fun to make. There were a lot of considerations to make, and I was (and still am) quite worried about how viable CAP 4 will be. Yet, I particularly like the look of my spread, even if part of me wanted other things. I'll probably add some more calculations as time goes on, though for now I think I've said all that I've really needed to.

Oct 7th, 2012, 4:44:12 PM	#3
capefeather Here's my mega plan: YOU DIE Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,636 I'm a super fighting robot from the year 2010	Final Submission 110 HP / 120 Atk / 99 Def / 117 SpA / 60 SpD / 94 Spe PT: 185.8420 (Excellent) ST: 116.5717 (Above Average) PS: 194.8939 (Excellent) SS: 193.0895 (Excellent) BSR: 390.1675 (Excellent) Attack / Special Attack My top priority is the Special Attack. I think that special offense inherently has a lot of advantages over physical offense on CAP 4, such that physical CAP 4 will require either gigantic physical offensive capability or lots of coverage moves to be enough of a threat that the risk in using it is worth it. This is also why I've been very precise in the Special Attack stat. Nonetheless, I can see where people are coming from with wanting both attacking stats to be good, so I have consequently jacked the BST up to 600. 117 Base SpA does lots of very specific things, most notably: 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed : 177-211 (46.09 - 54.94%) -- a 3HKO through four turns of Leftovers (think Protect), but NOT a 2HKO through two turns of Leftovers. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 120 super effective special vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Calm Leftovers Heatran : 221-260 (57.4 - 67.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 252 Def Bold Venusaur : 257-304 (73.63 - 87.1%) -- NOT a OHKO after Stealth Rock. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Black Sludge Rain Dish Tentacruel : 307-361 (84.34 - 99.17%) -- NOT a OHKO unless Stealth Rock is involved. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T : 191-226 (63.87 - 75.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO through Regenerator assuming Stealth Rock or one turn of Life Orb recoil. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Leftovers Blissey : 313-370 (48 - 56.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. 252 SpA Life Orb CAP 4 120 neutral special vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect : 165-195 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Note that it may need to choose between Psyshock (to OHKO Terrakion in sand and 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock) and Psychic (to 2HKO Gliscor and have more general power). As it turns out, defensive Politoed is an excellent indicator of how powerful (or not) CAP 4 can be. This is mostly because it is one of the very few common Pokémon that have great physical and special defenses. With 117 Base SpA and appropriate coverage, CAP 4 will be powerful enough to threaten most of the top 30 or so, but it will not be able to 2HKO absolutely everything just by making the right move, simply because it doesn't need to do so. The way I see it, special CAP 4 would be used as a versatile attacker that needs some support of some kind, which could be Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, or really anything that provides many opportunities to switch in. It could choose No Guard to be able to round out its neutral coverage in three accurate moves, which would leave room for a super effective coverage move, or Megahorn, or even a support move. On the other hand, Weak Armour and Illusion could be used, the former for the obvious valuable Speed boost (more on that later), and the latter to make it easier for CAP 4 to hit the right moves on the right targets. As for physical CAP 4: 0 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar : 361-429 (89.35 - 106.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Jirachi : 196-231 (48.51 - 57.17%) -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Leftovers Politoed : 169-200 (44.01 - 52.08%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Choice Scarf Rotom-W : 187-220 (77.27 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Chansey : 320-376 (45.45 - 53.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock -1 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Landorus-T : 224-265 (58.63 - 69.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -1 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Wild Charge vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Leftovers Gyarados : 291-348 (84.34 - 100.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 Fire Punch (Rain) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor : 203-239 (59.18 - 69.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Life Orb CAP 4 120 super effective physical vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Relaxed Leftovers Ferrothorn : 218-257 (61.93 - 73.01%) I see physical CAP 4 contrasting with special CAP 4 by being more of a wallbreaker by using Megahorn as its main battering ram at the cost of generally having lower Base Power coverage moves and having to think more about super effective coverage. Now, it should be noted that Megahorn is a pretty bad STAB for wallbreaking compared to other 120 Base Power STAB moves. So while wallbreaking may traditionally be seen as a safe role, I'd say that this does not hold quite so true with physical CAP 4. No Guard might be more desirable with physical CAP 4, since Weak Armour is geared toward a sweep, and yet accuracy is also so important. I can see Illusion working decently well, too, with enough coverage moves. Speed As it turns out, CAP 4 can already murder most of the most relevant Pokémon above 100 Base Speed, notably excluding Therian Tornadus. One could argue that potentially losing to Therian Tornadus is bad when CAP 4 could already face trouble with Politoed, but both are still maimed pretty badly, especially if Stealth Rock is involved. At any rate, I originally wanted a faster CAP 4, going with 122 at first and then dropping it below Latios, then below Terrakion. I particularly wanted to go over Genesect to ensure that CAP 4 would want to run a +Speed nature, and to ensure that it could outrun an extremely common Choice Scarf user with a Weak Armour boost. Yet, since I really didn't want to touch the Special Attack, I settled with the unique 94 Base Speed (the maximum possible under the limits is 95). This at the very least outruns Therian Landorus. I do think that CAP 4 really needs a decent amount of Speed, not in spite of Weak Armour, but because of it. People think that a higher Base Speed will make Choice Scarf more appealing than Weak Armour, but when we look at existing Pokémon around this Speed range, we see that Choice Scarf sets are not all that popular. Genesect and Therian Landorus are the only Pokémon in the 90s Speed range that commonly carry a Choice Scarf, followed maybe by Haxorus. (Notice that all of these Pokémon are significantly more powerful than this stat spread submission, PLUS the first two have U-turn.) I think that this is largely due to the greater appeal of other items that do more for a Pokémon in that range than a Choice Scarf will achieve (not to mention the choice lock), especially with Choice Scarf Genesect on the prowl. Let's face it, we have to consider that Choice Scarf users can still revenge a +1 boosted CAP 4 at any time. 94 is still a very inconvenient Speed tier, yet a Weak Armour boost will, at least, put it above many of the important Choice Scarf users, except perhaps the most common ones like Genesect and Terrakion (and I'd rather stick with my Special Attack than emulate Korski's submission). 94 Base Speed makes a Speed boost from Weak Armour much desired as well as very rewarding. It is also not so slow as to make Illusion and No Guard less viable. All of these abilities benefit from a decently high Speed stat. We shouldn't be putting so much unneeded focus on Weak Armour that we hurt CAP 4's viability, which would defeat the whole purpose. Defenses CAP 4's defenses have the following notable effects: 252 Atk Choice Scarf Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 330-390 (91.41 - 108.03%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO. 252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 238-282 (65.92 - 78.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 64 Atk Adamant Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP 4 : 230-272 (63.71 - 75.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 252 SpA Thundurus-T Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 187-222 (51.8 - 61.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 0 SpA Politoed Scald (Rain) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 180-213 (49.86 - 59%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO. +1 252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP 4 : 221-261 (61.21 - 72.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but NOT a OHKO after Stealth Rock. The Stone Edge calculations reflect some amusing situations I see with CAP 4 and Weak Armour. If CAP 4 switches into Stone Edge and it misses, then it doesn't get the Speed boost, but it also has much more HP left and it could actually have, say, Choice Scarf Therian Landorus wondering if it should try another Stone Edge. On the other hand, if Stone Edge hits and CAP 4 survives, it now outruns Therian Landorus, though it will still only have one attack left due to Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock if both are in play. A similar situation could be achieved with other common users of Stone Edge, as well as if Choice Scarf Terrakion attempts to revenge kill a completely healthy CAP 4. The calculation from Genesect, combined with the calculation of a hypothetical neutral attack on Genesect in the Attack / Special Attack section, gives a picture of what CAP 4 versus Choice Scarf Genesect might look like with this spread. Genesect is not going to switch into CAP 4 with ease, since that coverage move will take off most of its HP. In that situation, it has to use Bug Buzz or Flamethrower to try to finish off CAP 4, otherwise it doesn't KO and it goes down. It could still switch in to revenge kill, but with the imposed limits, CAP 4 can't do everything. CAP 4 can also OHKO Terrakion and Latios, two common Choice Scarf users, so that they also only get a safe switch-in after an ally goes down. The HP was chosen largely to regulate the BST. I had qualms about going over 86 (Yanmega), but I decided on 110 because it matched fellow Weak Armour holder Mandibuzz. I suppose it can also take advantage of certain moves, but that's for the movepool stage to decide. This spread has been fun to make. There were a lot of considerations to make, and I was (and still am) quite worried about how viable CAP 4 will be. Yet, I particularly like the look of my spread, even if part of me wanted other things. I'll probably add some more calculations as time goes on, though for now I think I've said all that I've really needed to. __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <%V4> Naruto is climaxing! <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason Last edited by capefeather; Oct 9th, 2012 at 3:33:51 PM.