Originally Posted by Fat Chimpakt
you need 60 EVs at +1 speed to outspeed Tornadus. And Zapdos should be taking hits better than Togekiss because of its typing alone. Its only weak to ice and rock, while togekiss has more weaknesses and is hit neutral by Fighting.
The thing about Togekiss is that it can heal a bit of its HP with lefties nearly every time it attacks because of air slash's flinch ratio.
One more thing I would like to mention is that Zapdos isn't taking electric attacks efficiently without a boost, but Togekiss doesn't take them well at all. You don't want your team to be that much more vulnerable to Tornadus and other special threats.
Originally Posted by Fat feriokun
I think specially defensive Togekiss could fit really well. It's really hard to beat as is, and with a few boosts, will be really scary. The set I would run is...
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EV: 252 HP, 252 Sdef, 4 Def
One you get a bit of speed, you can even Flinch Hax and recover any damage with leftovers. And with Calm Mind and Acid Armor/Iron Defense, it will be EXTREMELY hard to kill. Everytime it roosts its only weak to fighting, which can help get more subs up. If you MUST run substitute, then replace Aura Sphere, and just flinch hax those pesky dark/ghost types since nothing is immune to Flying moves. No need to invest in Satk EVs due to her already high Satk.
Yes you don't have stored power, but we're talking about someone who can check the Dark pokemon that espeon has trouble with. Stored power would be wasted if it is used on dark pokemon anyway.
Man, I am torn between these sets. Both seem very viable. Flinch Hax would make Togekiss a very easy way to get out of many tight situations. Ghost Immunity is very useful as well. Yet Zapdos is better defensively and offers STAB Thunderbolt to deal with Tornadus and even Politoed (with Haze or Perish Song).
Then again, I am currently using Venomoth with Sleep Powder, Disable, and Bug Buzz, which provides such great utility with Sleep Powder and Disable for those annoying Hazers and Choiced Pokemon. Bug Buzz gives a good attack as well because of its ability.
Tornadus is obviously best dealt with by Zapdos, but Venomoth provides a better all around utility service and Togekiss is has strong offensive capabilities. Are there another other counters to my team that one of these can significantly not handle as well as the others?
And as always, thanks for the input so far! =)