[Melee Mewtwo]

Originally Posted by Fat yee

"Weather diversifying the metagame" isn't what stall is worried about. Rain and Sun offense will always look almost exactly the same (and as a side effect lower diversity because other forms of offense aren't as good) and without weather countering will just overpower stall. Even without Rain and Sun the top offensive pokemon of OU will beat stall. You will know exactly whats coming and not be able to stop it when you have the threats I've mentioned to deal with.

I do agree that trying to achieve a balance by unbanning Ubers is the wrong approach to reaching balance. If something's broken, smashing it again won't fix it. You have to take out all of the parts that cannot fit in a balanced metagame.

Do you mean these guys?

Originally Posted by Fat yee

The problem is simply too much power creep. Stall did have a power creep of it's own with stuff like Regenerator and Rain Dish Tenta but Offense wins Offense vs. stall consistently here. It doesn't matter what weathers beat another- they're just arbitrary upgrades / counters to different offense and stall and the offense consistently beats stall because of Deo-D / Tornadus / Thundurus / Genesect / Terrakion etc. Banning rain does nerf offense more than stall when Torn / Thund / Keldeo are in the equation and it does release the need to counter entire weather team archetypes (packing defensive counters to them isn't a "challenge", it's not possible) in order to deal with those threats but with the current balance of offense and stall as is it will surely take more than just banning weather to create a level playing field.

All of those guys would be much easier for stall to handle not just cause the lack of weather would make most of them significantly weaker, but also because Stall wouldn't have to worry about all the other guys that get a boost from weather at the same time (Victini, Toxicroak, anything with water/fire attacks, Thunder, Hurricane, etc.). This makes it easier for team building and it would be less likely that there would be holes left for games to be predetermined by team match-up. I agree that there might be a few more guys to ban after that, but it would already be good first step. Anyways, we'll see what the OU council decides to do. In the mean time, we'll have to try and figure out a way to deal with what we got.


Speaking of revenge killers, Ditto is pretty anti-metagame and can benefit from Stall pushing Offense to boost while serving as your general revenge killer (as shown in the Dark Horse thread). What do you guys think of it?