A semi-bump where I answer the awesome replies to my awesome team:
Originally Posted by Fat wrestlethebest
Very, very nice team Electrolyte. It desereves a rate, even if by a poor rater like me! The one thing I would suggest is running this Breloom spread, it allows you to take a CC/SE and Swords dance in that turn which can lead to sweeps late game. It might seem kinda useless to not KO first turn with Mach Punch but being able to have that +2 on whatever switches in kind of nice in my opinion.
Breloom (F) @ Fight Gem
EVs: 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
Thanks for the rate! It was definitely more helpful than you give yourself credit for. Breloom right now functions more as a sweeper than a revenge killer- and though it does the latter well, I really need it to be able to take a few hits and recover off the damage without having to move a muscle. Because it's one of my main counters to Sand, taking away its Sand-counter will make it a lot frailer, and unable to do its job successfully. Thanks for the idea though!
Originally Posted by Fat Leader Fox
for some reason i don't see anything wrong with your team, except change your latias to expert belt orb or to leftovers, as latias don't like getting walled by ferrothorns or other special walls. Love how My alt Miss Elesea Menaj is So Big :) (my alt)
We had a great battle, I'm not sure if you remembered :) A lot of Latias's viability on this team is her ability to Trick AND hit hard, which is why I chose Specs. LO would drain her health too quickly, give away her offensive 'surprise', and make her Tricks not as effective. EBelt wouldn't drain her health or give away her surprise, however it is not powerful enough, nor does it have nearly as much effect against pokemon like Ferrothorn/Blissey. I also have HP Fire most of the time on Latias, so pokemon like Scizor/Ferrothorn are less of a problem.
Originally Posted by Fat ito
i would say since your going all out offensive with latias, might as well go with latios since it has more power.
As I said above, Latias's surprise and better bulk solidifies her spot on the team. Since so many people are suggesting it, however, I will try out Latios.
Originally Posted by Fat ganj4lF
Hey man, really awesome team. I love alexwolf's Cobalion too, and you put it to great use.
You could have some problems with Specially Bulky Celebi, since you can't take down it at all bar U-Turn. Jirachi is walled hard, and can be forced out with Perish Song, Latias can only Trick, Cobalion can't do anything apart from Taunting, Breloom and Politoed can status it / Encore, but thanks to Natural Cure that's hardly a problem. Cobalion and Lando can of course mantain momentum on it by VoltTurning, but the thing still handles almost everything in your team so I think it's at least worth a mention. Not that I have some idea to fix that, since everything I can think opens some other, much worse, weakness in your team.
Overall, great work and good luck for your laddering!
Awesome rate Ganj! You're right- Celebi is really a bitch- and surprisingly, Landorus can't even OHKO the defensive versions with U-Turn. Defensive Celebi's with Perish Song are of no annoyance to me at all, because they can easily be set up on with Jirachi. Offensive versions can be dealt with Jirachi as well, however I must make sure it doesn't get a boost first. Landorus's U-TUrn can also deal a lot of damage. I usually have to play safely against it, but it's not as
annoying as some other pokemon. Thanks for the rate!
Originally Posted by Fat bubbly
Celebi does look like an issue, same with things which have a similar typing like CM Roar Latias (all you can really do is try to hax it with Jirachi or hit it with Poli's Toxic / Encore). The other problem I can see is entry hazards; against Deoxys-D in particular I really don't understand how you can win against a competent player. You can lead with Coba for the Taunt, but with so many bulky members Deo will at some point be able to set up.
Off the top of my head...SpDef Forretress could definitely fit over Cobalion, although it does remove a lot of the creativity. It spins, obviously, and the hazards it provides should make up for the loss of Coba's offensive presence. Also sets up on Celebi and Latias. I'd personally go for Flash Cannon in place of Water Pulse on Rachi, again helping handle Latias and hitting Tyranitar, hopefully luring it so it isn't such a roadblock to your own Latias.
Hope that helps, it's a really nice team and beautifully presented:)
Thanks for the complement! I've never thought about Forretress, because Cobalion's role is so important for the team. It would help me with my hazards problem, and stack even more to help Breloom and Jirachi sweep. I think it's definitely worth trying!
You mentioned Deoxys-D, and I would like to say that Cobalion is exactly the way I deal with that thing. I just Taunt it, Volt Switch, and then grab early momentum. Cobalion is what I lead with 75% of the time, even if Deoxys-D isn't on my opponents team, so it is rarely a problem. I fear that if I lose Cobalion Deoxys-D and other set up sweepers like Dragonite would become much more problematic. What do you think?
Originally Posted by Fat GC7
Pretty good team over all, I'd say Celebi might be a huge pain in the butt for your team though unless you could predict the switch into cobalion and hp ice it, other wise it'll be a big problem especially in the sun if it has hp fire
Variants with HP Fire are dealt with by Landorus, as those are usually the offensive versions. Latias can also pummel the offensive versions with her own HP Fire or Draco Meteor. I've never really had a problem with offensive Celebi; it's defensive Celebi that's more problematic. Thanks anyway!
Originally Posted by Fat Pocket
Electrolyte, this was a fun read! I really appreciate how you were able to fit Cobalion into this team, and it's such a cool set, too :D
As you mentioned Latias and RP Landorus are some notable threats to this team. Although you haven't listed it as such, Volcarona on a Sun team can relatively easily sweep this team, given the opportunity by Latias. Here are some quick fixes to these problems:
Divert 40 Defense EVs into Politoed's Special Defense
. You use Politoed for mixed-walling, so the extra 40 SpD EVs would help tank hits from the likes of RP Landorus, Gengar, or Volcarona. You still reach the jump point in Defense (264).
Try out Water Gem Rain Dance Latios
over Specs Latias. This is a set that shrang has discovered, and I believe it would benefit this team by aiding you in the weather war. After Rain Dance + Water Gem, Latios's Surf virtually OHKOs all but the most specially defensive Tyranitar. It will certainly throw off Sun teams, too!
Latios @ Water Gem | Levitate
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Draco Meteor
~ Rain Dance
You can use Life Orb if you want, but WGem is recommended to OHKO bulkier TTars with SR
Finally, I suggest replacing Breloom for Mamoswine
. Mamoswine gives you a quick and dirty answer to all the annoying Celebi and Latias that troubles this team with its powerful STAB Ice offense. Even more, it makes RP Landorus a non-issue as you can OHKO it any time. Losing Breloom means you miss out on Mach Punch, but most targets for Mach Punch is covered well by this team (ie Landorus-T checks Terrakion). You also lose out on Spore, so if you really want that sleep support, you may want to try Hypnosis
on Politoed over Toxic.
Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~ Ice Shard
~ Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
Thanks for sharing this creative team, and have fun :)
Thanks for the rate Pocket, it was really helpful, and I"m glad you enjoyed my RMT!
I've already tested and changed the evs- they work well. Thanks!
On the subject of Latios, I have never seen that set before- and am very eager to try it. A Latios that can OHKO Tyranitar? Yes please. Though, no HP Fire and another weakness to Ferrothorn will be something I'll have to overcome.
As for losing Breloom, I am really really reluctant to do that. I originally thought Breloom could be fixed because it was really just slapped onto the team, but when I lost it the team suffered a lot. The only thing I don't like about Mamoswine is the fact that it can't set up or shut down slower walls- which is a lot of what Breloom's slot is used for. I could use Politoed for shutting down walls like you said, but missing a Hypnosis twice against a Ferrothorn will be really annoying later in the match, especially when the Spikes are doing upwards to 20% every time I switch. I will try this, but most likely I don't think it'll work out.
Awesome rate! It's always nice to hear from you, Pocket! Thanks!
Originally Posted by Fat Asterat
well you can't really rely on 4 HP choice latias to take on all sun teams and sweepers. I would make landorus sheer force or terrakion and give rocks to jirahchi except make it bronzong because of garchomp and mamoswine.
Garchomp really isn't a problem at all, Latias outspeeds it and can OHKO, Cobalion outspeeds it and can OHKO, Landorus-T can Intimidate it, and Breloom can revenge at around 30%. Mamoswine can be problematic at times, but can be handled by Cobalion/Politoed- and choiced ones can be handled by scouting its moveset and acting accordingly. It may not seem like it, but Latias has a lot of special bulk even when uninvested- certainly enough to wall Politoeds and Ninetales even in their own weather. It can even survive Tyranitar's Pursuit, as long as it doesn't switch out.
Originally Posted by Fat Chimpakt
I suggest you replace SD on Breloom for Low Sweep. It gives you a great answer to faster threats and it can 2hko Tornadus-T so that Jirachi doesn't have to worry about taking hits from it. SD is a great move but your other sweepers require weakened pokemon and a bit of set up. with SD you outright take out pokemon but stuff like Tornadus, Salamence, Dragonite, Latis, Skarmory, bronzong can just come in and not be scared of the + 2 Mach punch. Low Sweep forces them to sac it (unless they're scarfed) or switch out to another pokemon to take damage.
Low Sweep also helps you take on slower and bulkier pokemon as well like Conkelderr, Scizor, and Scrafty.
Thanks for the rate! As I stated above, Breloom's ability to set up makes him important for my team. Low Sweep sounds useful, but SD is a lot more beneficial, as it turns Breloom into a sweeper, instead of a predicting machine. Still, I'll test it out. Thanks!