Originally Posted by Fat Gimmick
...192 Spe EVs
. Then, slap on a Timid nature
. Bam. Now you outspeed Garchomp and below. I can't even count on my fingers how many things you outspeed
with this. A few examples include: Landorus-I, Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Jirachi, Celebi, Deoxys-D, Genesect, Timid Hydreigon, Jolly Haxorus, etc
. You do lose a bit of firepower because of the change from Modest as well as 16 Spe (or SAtk) EVs, but with all the Pokemon you outspeed, it's definitely worth it.
Final Latias Set
(F) @ Life Orb
EVs: 152 HP / 164 SAtk / 192 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
Next up: Stoutland. I know the extra power from Adamant is extremely appreciated, but a Jolly nature... 176 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed up to Scarf Latios (which is really the most relevant fastest Scarf). This gives you 80 HP EVs, making Stoutland even more difficult to take down.
Oh and you also outspeed the Jolly Breloom speed tier outside of Sandstorm.
Final Stoutland Set
(F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Wild Charge
Next, I'm going to suggest 8 Spe EVs on Rotom-W. They simply allow you to outspeed standard Bulk Up Toxicroak and Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch before they Substitute.
...One thing you can try is Specially Defensive Hippowdown with Stone Edge ...Here's a calc just to show Hippo's amazing special walling capabilities:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 55.24% - 65.24% (2 hits to KO)
Final Hippowdon Set
And with that, I conclude this lengthly rate! I hope I helped! :] Oh, and congrats on the success!
(M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
Hey Gimmick, I'm going to run max speed on Latias, because the main draw to running more speed than my current set has is to outspeed Terrakion, Keldeo, Virizion etc. It's mainly to mitigate Terrakion and Keldeo problems, and those really are the main pokemon I'm really trying to outspeed by bumping up those speed EVs.
I don't really need Jolly Stoutland, I lose alot of damage output and I really do miss out on quite a few OHKOs (iirc), in return for outspeeding Scarf Terrakion who is countered by Hippowdon and not at all a threat to my team, Scarf latios who is weak and can be played around with ease, etc.
Rotom-W never stays in on Toxicroak, going for Will-O-Wisp is an unnecessary risk when I have a perfectly good Hippowdon to switch to, If I went for the Will-O-Wisp and they ended up being a Swords Dance set then they get up a free Swords Dance and if I miss again it's probably gg. Volt Switching means I risk taking a Cross Chop, and again: it's an unnecessary risk. Slow Volt Switches actually help Rotom-W perform it's role of being a defensive pivot, and overall I'd rather just keep the extra 2 points of Special Attack.
I really need Hippowdon's Defense close to max, without it I simply can't check the threats I need to check. My biggest playstyle weakness is hyper offense, which is usually overloaded with prominent Physical threats, if I were to use Specially Defensive Hippowdon I'd be far too weak to HO teams. Thanks for the rate :)
Originally Posted by Fat Valentine
Gamester peaked number one with a very similar team (hippo/lati@s/band stout/sleep talk specs mag) 6ish months ago. I love comparing my teams to similar ones, so heree http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468353
I'm not recommending you change his sets/mons to his, i'm just showing you another similar work.
Hey Valentine, I've seen that team before and I believe Gamester used Scarf Magnezone then changed it to Scarf Magneton, rather than Specs, he also used Specs Latios, Shaymin (I think he changed it to Amoongus, idr), and TTar for Dual weather. Our teams are obviously going to be similiar because we used the same core, but outside of that core there are no similarities, so I wouldn't call the very similiar, lol. Thanks for reading this rmt and taking the time to comment :)
Originally Posted by Fat Finchinator
Double Dance terrakion is situational, if it needs to outspeed it can rp, if it needs to ko it can sd.
For example, against stall it'll likely sd, against HO it'll likely RP.
Usually late game it only needs one to put the game in the bag.
Hey Finch, I know how Double Dance Terrakion works and I'm always sure to save something that can handle it at +2 Attack as well as something that can handle it at +2 speed, I've came across about 5 of these Terrakion's since I started using this team and I've never been swept by one. I should have explained a few of the other reasons for why I won't be using Scizor; it can't break through walls, I lose my Sub Toxic Gliscor check, and I'll be much weaker to the likes of dragons, therians etc.
Originally Posted by Fat Pocket
TGMD - solid team, and thanks for owning the Dark Horse challenge with it ;)
The fact that you depend on Sand Rush Stoutland and Ice Shard from Mamoswine to revenge-kill many threats, it's understandable that QD Volcarona and RPolish Genesect can have its way with this team. There's an easy solution that I like to suggest frequent on specially-defensive Rotom-W: Thunder Wave > Will-O-Wisp. T-Wave just makes sense, when you consider that mons that Rotom-W is supposed to stop - speedy special sweepers! Paralyzing QD Volcarona and RP Genesect would instantly ruin their sweep.
It seems like you're experimenting with your Latias spread; may I suggest 132 HP / 124 SpA / 252 Spe? This allows you to OHKO Keldeo after SR / sand damage (88.7% of the time ;x). Even Max HP Venusuar is OHKOed by Psyshock after SR damage. You have the Speed to check dangerous threats like Thundurus-T, Keldeo, and Terrakion. Even more, you still got dat bulk! You wont be 2-shotting Blissey after sand & SR did with your Modest Latias, but you really need the Speed. Even with the current spread you can 2HKO Blissey coming in at 82% (with SR + sand), so that's plenty of pressure imo.
Thanks for sharing your team, The Great Mighty Doom!
Hey Pocket, as much as I hate Will-O-Wisp's miss rate, it can be incredibly helpful, it allows Rotom-W to take hits comfortably from both sides of the spectrum and it really helps me wear down some of the pokemon that I'd have mass amounts of trouble with otherwise. But being able to check non Sub / Chesto Resto variants of Volcarona without having to do something elaborate would be amazing. I'll definitely test it out.
That EV spread looks good, I'll test it out, do a few other relevant calcs, and see how it goes. Thanks for the rate :)
Originally Posted by Fat King
Hey man great team. You've beaten me many times with it, and that's just to be expected of you. One thing I think is worth mentioning and that is changing Latias to Reuniclus
I know that might seem strange but late game can be challenging if stout and sand are beaten. It also helps with your terrakion weakness. The only thing I see it not helping with that much is breloom(after +2 it has a high chance of ko'ing with bseed) but if you don't wanna try it I completely understand. It's a solid team and I look forward to seeing more teams from you in the future!
Hey King, with the change from Latias to Reuniclus; I lose a water resist, sun check, alot of speed etc. Overall, Latias is rather important to this team as it carries important resistances as well as other appealing attributes.