Originally Posted by Fat Corkscrew
To be honest, I'm really torn when it comes to Scraggy. Both Delver and Sir make very good points. When compared to other physical set up sweepers (Dwebble, Tirtouga, Shellder, Axew etc...) it needs less support that every single one. It can pretty much fit on any team and attempt a sweep. As Sir said, if played intelligently it finds getting past its counters quite easy. As Jacob Ninja pointed out, 4x resisting Sucker Punch is a great advantage over other sweepers such as Drilbur who will really fear Murkrow's Sucker Punch.
I'm not sure if the metagame has shifted enough to make Scraggy A rank. Pretty much every team carries Mienfoo but that isn't exactly hard to get past (read Sir's posts). The only real thing it has to fear imo, are faster revenge killers like ScarfKrow which isn't that common.
Looking at Delver's arguments, I think he's right in the fact that Scraggy's predictability lets it down. We all know what it's trying to do. (Although I have been running the moxie-scarf set to some success recently). But then again, isn't Mienfoo predictable? It's almost always running a bulky pivot set with the rare baton pass set and the even more rare scarf.
I'm not saying that Scraggy is either A or S, I just feel that there should be more thought about it as Sir has made a very good case on it being S. All I know is that it is hands down the best physical sweeper in the meta (better than Drilbur imo)*, but that's about all it can do.
*I'm not saying Scraggy is a better pokemon than Drilbur as Drilbur fills more roles such as Wall-Breaker/Rapid Spinner/Revenge Killer. I just feel that Scraggy can set up and sweep better than it.
EDIT: Sorry this is really rambly and I'm not sure I managed to get my thoughts coherently. Tell me if you need clarification.
Just to defend my arugment; yes Mienfoo is predictable but what sets it apart from scraggy is that it *has* a viable baton pass set, a viable scarf set, a viable LO set, etc. It's mienfoo's ability to "perform many jobs well" *in addition* to its ability to perform its most common role as a defensive pivot near flawlessly that makes it S rank. Scraggy just doesnt have as many viable sets.
And its been said and said again; any meta-viable team will have multiple scraggy checks. A good player won't let some one set up the scraggy, and even if they do, they'll have an answer for it. The difference between this and say something like Drilbur, like you said, though mostly seen as a sweeper, has other viable sets, blah blah blah
I'll be honest: I really don't think any mon in the LC metagame can do *one* roll well enough to make it considered S rank, and apparently so does everyone else by virtue of the mons that have made it in. LC is a very "balanced" metagame, in reference to team compositions. Teams like their mons to be very flexible to answer the myriad of threats without losing their own offensive pressure. Because of this, I really just can't think of any mon (especially sweepers) that can justify them selves as "S" because they're "good at sweeping" or "good at walling." To be frank, I still wouldnt concider scraggy S rank if the Metagame wasnt warped around it. by virtue of it being essentially *ONLY* a sweeper it will *require* team support, and people will see it in the team preview and think "welp gotta keep <insert scraggy check here> alive to deal with that."
Now just as a preempt (cause i thoguht of this while writign this out) you might be thinking "well almost all murkrow sets require support, and murkrow is an S rank mon, there for your argument is flawed." Andddd that's just wrong. When you see a murkrow in Team Preview can you ever tell me what it's running? Ever? It's that unpredictability and ability to rip through unprepared teams that makes Murkrow S rank. Similarly, Misdreavus's and mienfoo's mix of great offensive and defensive presense as well as (a much smaller amount) of unpredicatability that make them S rank.
Another prempt: "Drilbur made it to S and he's only a really good sweeper in sand." Drilbur gets S rank because in sand, it is hands down the best sweeper in the teir, that's unarguable. However, even without that sand up, it still provides the team with something. LO sweepers often opt for RS over SD because you really dont need the SD boost; giving you a MASSIVE offensive/supportive threat should you absolutley need it, while eviolite variants are fairly bulky in their own right. I could go on but most of the other set's im aware of that are viable i mentioned in my previous post and I dont feel like being repetative.
--Scraggy gets A (at least my reasoning) because it lacks the same overall contribution to a team than another say Murkrow, or Misdreavus, or Drilbur.
--It's arguable that because it's such a predictable mon you will have to dedicate 1-2 slots of your team to take out its multiple checks and counters that you'll be playing against.
--This doesnt make it bad, it just makes it a less flexible mon than the S ranks.
--I'm terribly biased against "one trick mons" for S teir
--I promise I'll eventually make a Post that doesnt require a TL:DR
Also: Iunno if its been nominated but sandshrew for B rank
- on the grounds of Double Sand Rush