[Bent1ey]

First of all, excuse me from cutting up your post, but for space proposes and the fact this discussion is already occupying a good chunk of this thread I rather just address a certain number of points that I think deserve consideration rather than extending myself over everything.

The truth is, your stance is entirely reasonable so I don't see the point of disagreeing with you. I do believe that you can reach an entirely different conclusion from the same data, without really betraying the spirit of the unbannings. It wasn't my intention from the beginning but since you've come to illustrate the opposite point, I think the discussion was all the more valuable to anyone who cared to read it.

Anyways, I want to focus just in a few points of what you said, since it sums up everything pretty well.

Originally Posted by Fat syrim

If you refer the the "Portrait of an Uber" post by Jumpman16, you'll realize that excadrill fits the bill, going by standard ou banning procedure as you later state you want, in more ways than one. It beats a significant portion of its counters with little effort, cannot be predicted against safely, and makes it much easier for teammates to win by removing the hazards that let some uber pokemon be checked.

Excadrill is literaly the counter of a counter of a counter. If you feel that it's ability to defeat the conventional spin-blockers actually means it has no counters and thus is overpowered/unfair, then voting to ban OHKOs because Excadrill -or others- is reasonable.

Originally Posted by Fat syrim

Once again you've essentially agreed with me. The diversity I harped on in my post you quoted certain parts of means on its own that no one style is dominant, that they are all viable and capable of winning consistently at the highest level of play.

I'd argue that there is no reason for every style to be viable and capable of winning, just by looking at the other formats you can tell this has no bearings on the Suspect votings.

Originally Posted by Fat syrim

So, the pool of viable pokemon, and the playstyles these pokemon enable, is reduced. If you consider that the only viable ohko user who doesn't already see significant play is Lapras, as gliscor, kyogre, excadrill, and even gastrodon see use, then the admission of these moves into ubers objectively lowers the potential diversity for a player aiming to beat all team types consistently.

The fact that Gliscor, Excadrill and Gastrodon see some play suddenly rules out the possibility of them adding diversity by gaining a significant importance in the metagame? I'm not sure that's exactly how that works. If these pokemon are a bigger influence in the meta new counters could be added from the lower tiers, since their BST isn't all that high. There are many things that objectively lower the potential diversity of the game, one of them is simply having more powerful pokemon in a single format, the weaker ones are hurt by extension.

I suppose that using niche answers to certain threats could be seen as an indicator of a problem, but since we're introducing a new kind of offense, it's kind of expected to produce a new kind of answer. Because as I stated already, we want the OHKO moves to matter.