Originally Posted by Fat Chimera404
CM Meloetta beats Mew because Shadow Ball - SE coverage will almost always beat NVE STAB when it comes to damage. Assuming that both have boosted once, Mew has a 68% chance of being 1hko'd by Shadow Ball while only netting a 2hko with Psyshock in return. While it outspeeds, congrats, you've now ended up with a 6-7% hp Mew, or dead first turn if it's running LO in place of Lefties (again, that causes large bulk issues). In fact, Lefties only has a 0.39% chance to 2hko AFTER SR. At this point anything is capable of revenging it. In fact, if they end up in a boosting war then Mew needs +6 to 1hko with LO... and still no chance with Lefties on both sides. Feeling lucky enough that the opponent won't mash you while you do so, then wreck the rest of your team?
I see, then, we're not running Recover/Softboiled. Are we going to be assuming resist berries/LO for these calcs, or should I just go ahead and assume Lefties?
I carry 1 Heracross check intentionally. More often than not dedicating more than one Pokemon to check a given Pokemon is diverting too many resources (2 out of 6, cmon, gimme a break!) and if that Pokemon deserves it, well, do we need to say much more about metagame centralization? Mew, if nothing else, doesn't make me defecate in my lower garments when I have a somewhat weakened team.
I was ASSUMING 2 attacking moves, with Psyshock as STAB (since you're consistently talking about it over Psychic). If you're going to pack Shadow Ball, on the other hand, forget it. You still can't 1HKO without Leftovers and SR, anyway.
I actually never run Cofag because speed is so important for the core members of my team, so I mainly just whack it hard in the nuts and watch it go down to Darmanitan or something. Kind of like Mew, at least from what I've seen on the ladder. It's still important enough that I've planned counters and tactics for how to use it and stuff.
Its a 2 OHKO with Psyshock, no item boosts, (49-58%), should you opt to switch Cofa into a +2 Psyshock attack... Again its not safe, and even then I wouldn't switch Cofa into Mew period unless I knew its set because Stallbreaker or NP Mew are not particularly favorable matches for Cofa.
Edit: I do question the tactics because they aren't something a player with a decent grasp of Cofa would necessarily play into, and it was just an example much like trying to use Sableye to switch into an incoming special attack (Shadow Ball may be neutral but at +2 and with Sable's bulk there is a chance OHKO). Again at best these plays are only likely if you were pushed at the end of your rope but such scenarios aren't something considered in a suspect thread because its more of a matter of being outplayed.
As for Meloetta its much quicker to get into +6 with Mew because its +2 boost vs +1 moreover Meloetta is switching in by your assumption and being outsped it will most likely take a +2 attack before any boosts occur (or it can opt to boost further if its ballsy enough). Mew would end up being in the advantageous position. And even if Mew did fail to kill Meloetta she'd be heavily crippled ripe for cleaning up, which is pretty good support. Though I believe you only mentioned Meloetta since you wanted to posit it as a hard counter to Psychic/Ghost coverage of NP Mew and arguably it isn't one as the scenarios and even calcs you mentioned show Mew can come out on top 1 vs 1... So I'd just drop this. Or rather I'd just drop the idea of Mew lacking coverage its just silly because its movepool lends itself well to coverage. Moreover, its not easy to hard wall Mew with its coverage or set of moves and NP in particular for the offensive variants because it is a mixed set thanks to Psyshock, psychic type attacks is in no way a point against Mew to use its STAB because it does well in the meta, along with coverage.
As for not carrying 2 Heracross checks I find it hard to believe because one way or another people do tend to bring two, even if that wasn't in their mind, with either a posion+ghost or a bulky water+poison (there are more combinations but point is you tend to end up one way or another with two checks - one dedicated one and the other by bulk as the metagame is shifting to bulky offense). Either way there does tend to be two checks to a Heracross that isn't necessarily a strain to team building, it just tends to happen with team building as pointed out in arguments regarding Heracross before. Arguably it does give you more freedom to bring two checks rather than a hard counter at times but that would be a different discussion altogether point is the intended Heracross check tends to have poison typing which Psychic types do take advantage of well, so Psychic is not exactly a shitty type in UU or if its not poison you've often got ghost types which Psychic type does hit neutrally (and often on their weaker defense).
While the problem with the idea of assuming what item Mew runs is the same as assuming what set it tends to run, its too easily tailor made the berries are just a good example of how that versatility and unpredictability can easily lead it to a quick advantage.
Originally Posted by Fat Grim Gregg
Relax. The post I was replying to said that not many pokes can boast hitting Shaymin that hard with neutral moves. So I showed Darmanitan can hit mew that hard (same base 100 stats). I even said in my post I know they are wildly different; I was just comparing their damage output.
This is what I was just complaining about with Chimera because the example your bringing up is something purposely skewed against Mew that its not exactly a good way about in trying to discuss a suspect. For one clearly not very many things neutral to fire can necessarily take an LO+Reckless Flare Blitz from Darmanitan in the first place. Secondly, scarved Darms tend to be more popular as 95 speed isn't all that reliable especially off such a frail mon, so the more likely calc if you do insist on using Darm's Reckless boosted STAB Flare Blitz coming off one of the highest attack stat in UU would be one without the additional LO boost. You claim not many can boast hitting Shaymin with hard neutral moves but using Darm fully utilizing his offense for a calc is not at all convincing or necessarily even close to being objective because that is hardly a standard that should be used.