Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Sweet Jesus
good question whiteD.
I think the ice type in general is not that anti-meta, but 2 of it's users are. Regice and articuno both have a nasty SR weakness, but as long as you can keep them off the field, they are huge threats I always make sure to prepare for when teambuilding.
People often think of ice type attacks as something that comes with water pokes such as ludicolo and gorebyss and will bring a counter to those pokes, but regice and articuno have a much more powerful ice move, very different coverage and are actually very hard to kill on the special side considering special fire types are pretty rare and electric types are pretty weak.
Regice's boltbeam coverage and offensive articuno's hurricane are not easy things to counter without neglecting the previously mentioned water types. Ludi and gorebyss's two best counters are probably specially defensive ludi and mantine which can both be wrecked by either hurricane or thunderbolt.
Talking of hurricane in particular, while most special walls can take a neutral hurricane, there is barely nothing with offensive presence that can since the 3 main resists being rock steel and electric usualy have either pretty bad special defense, terrible offensive presence, can't take an ice beam or can't do more to cuno than it can roost off. Steel types in general are pretty rare although metang, one of articuno's best counters, is seeing a nice rise in usage. Rock types usualy don't have the sp.d to take an ice beam and there's only 2 bulky electric types (3 with eviobuzz) which don't have recovery and take a decent chunk from ice beam too.
|
Instead of just naming two of them as better than the rest, I'd argue that nearly every Ice-type available to us in NU (bar silly ones like Glalie and Walrein, the latter of which ium and I learned is basically useless in every way shape and form) simply are just very good Pokemon in the current metagame and the Ice typing is just an amendment to that. Piloswine and Regice are very similar in the sense that they have the right typing and bulk to deal with common threats, and both also have the offensive tools / support to fit a niche on many different teams. Even with the SR weakness that Regice carries, nothing really can replace the rather incredible 80 / 100 / 200 defenses that it has (and 100 SpA with BoltBeam coverage, too...). Articuno is another beneficiary of extraordinary bulk + offensive utility (especially now that it gets Hurricane too), and it excels in a tier where 'bulky stuff' comes only once in a blue moon. Obviously they all still have their flaws, most notably the SR weakness, but the advantages that they carry really outweigh the negatives.
Maybe the mystery of us having "good Ice-types" boils down to the fact that higher tiers don't want to use them thanks to their susceptibility to SR. Taking movepools / abilities / statistics into account, these are really already among the best Pokemon in the tier - it's just the typing that leads us to think of them as 'underrated' or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Shuckleking87
Speaking of Gothorita, when I used Gothitelle back in the day, I used a max HP max D Bold Gothitelle with Calm Mind, Rest, Psychic and Charm. I was able to get to #3 on the ladder and this poke could rip through teams (most notable target being sawk). Potentially, you could be sitting at +6 SA/SD and the opponent at -6 Att. Unless the opponent got multiple crits, this could set up on most physical choice locked pokes. The benefit of gothitelle was I was able to receive leftovers damage while asleep for 2 turns, which is something gothorita cannot. Also, the times have changed since gothitelle left nu. Do you think the same set on gothorita could be viable?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat WhiteDMist
Shuckleking, Charm is an interesting option for Gothirita. I think the main problem is the amount of set-up time is like an open invitation for crits. Also, since it only affects the current opposing Pokemon, the minute you take it out the switch in can come in and wreck face. At least with Reflect, you guarantee that you have a defensive buffer for that, and you support your teammates as well.
|
Outside of setting up on Alomoonguss and choice-locked Pokemon, Gothorita always seems to be lacking to me (plus it's just asking to be crit, since it takes so long to set up by just waiting out the Rest turns). I don't think it's honestly as good when you're playing people that don't simply rely on the overused core of Alomomola + Amoonguss. Why wouldn't you use Musharna or Gardevoir instead, both of whom have a ton of utility outside of setting up on common defensive cores? :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat DTC
Yeah I love Simisage right now, although Overgrow is a bit over hyped imo. I find Overgrow is only a factor in like a fifth of my matches. Simisage's lack of usage came from us just not trying it out. It has always been good.
Ice-types in general are amazing in NU right now. Piloswine / Articuno / Regice / Rotom-Frost are some of the best Pokemon in the tier. All of them are very potent and a majority of teams lately are actually weak to those 4. I have not been using Piloswine that much recently, though. For SR setters I'm whoring Golem / Regirock. Golem and Piloswine are really quite similar. I like Golem because I can use an item like Ground Gem and not sacrifice a bunch of bulk. Regirock is amazingly reliable because it is practically impossible to OHKO and can quickly heal with Drain Punch.
|
In regards to Overgrow on Simisage, I see it mostly as just another reason that you should be using it rather than _the_ reason to use it. Souped-up Giga Drains are always nice, though. Otherwise I'd agree ~