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**Pocket** · Dec 25th, 2012, 7:57:44 PM

kd24, Drizzle is a controversial topic - not everybody thinks the same way as you and other anti-Drizzle users. A lot of users can't be fucked to try to "out-shout" you in #pokemon, so they just watch you guys rant without sharing the same sentiments.

Drizzle is complicated, b/c it affects more than just Keldeo, Tornadus-T, but a whole host of other Pokemon that benefit from it in less subtle ways. Hell, even Celebi appreciates Rain for negating Sand's residual damage and protecting it from Fire moves. It's also noteworthy that Drizzle alone has yet to be broken (arguably Rain was non-problematic post-r5 and pre-bw2, which were after we banned Thundurus and before the introduction of Keldeo and Tornadus-T). We all agree that a COMBINATION of Drizzle and powerful Rain abusers are the real issue here (if there's any issue at all) - whether to ban the handful of few abusers to preserve a playstyle or ban the playstyle for simplicity is up for debate.

Personally, if there's no easy way to decisively pinpoint the problem, the next course of action would be to make the decision that would provide the most favorable outcome. Banning Drizzle has a threat of precipitating an imbalance in the currently balanced powers of weather. Without Rain, Sun may become OP, and we may end up banning Drought. With no Sun or Rain, Sand will become the "default weather," and our ban-happy selves may end up banning Stoutland, Landorus, hell even Terrakion, or maybe even Sandstream altogether. Thundurus and Manaphy will most likely return to OU. In the end, banning Rain would potentially precipitate more bans that will restrict the metagame to a few dominant Fighting-types, Dragon-, and Steel-types. Not my picture of a diverse or an enjoyable playstyle - more like stagnant and even more centralized around whatever OU mons that are left (Terrakion, Keldeo, Heatran, Scizor, Latios, Salamence, etc).

If we can ban one or even two more abusers to make Rain less of an issue, I'd much rather prefer this than banning Drizzle just b/c 3+ mons are broken in it. Like I said above, there are many non-broken mons that benefit from Rain, and I don't believe it's desirable to lose such benefits rain bestow to these Pokemon for the sake of a few OP mons. Of course there comes a point where banning so many Pokemon broken in Drizzle will prove more damaging to meta diversity than banning Drizzle, but I personally think we haven't reached that threshold yet, especially with Manaphy and THundurus-I being the only Pokemon banished to Ubers because of rain. Is freeing Manaphy and Thundurus-I worth banning Drizzle and potentially Drought and Sand, thereby nerfing several Pokemon that benefit from these weather in the process?

PS: This has nothing to do with OU Council transparency, but it's relevant to the other topic at hand (how-to-handle Drizzle)

Dec 25th, 2012, 7:57:44 PM	#2
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,168 Bergenfield	kd24, Drizzle is a controversial topic - not everybody thinks the same way as you and other anti-Drizzle users. A lot of users can't be fucked to try to "out-shout" you in #pokemon, so they just watch you guys rant without sharing the same sentiments. Drizzle is complicated, b/c it affects more than just Keldeo, Tornadus-T, but a whole host of other Pokemon that benefit from it in less subtle ways. Hell, even Celebi appreciates Rain for negating Sand's residual damage and protecting it from Fire moves. It's also noteworthy that Drizzle alone has yet to be broken (arguably Rain was non-problematic post-r5 and pre-bw2, which were after we banned Thundurus and before the introduction of Keldeo and Tornadus-T). We all agree that a COMBINATION of Drizzle and powerful Rain abusers are the real issue here (if there's any issue at all) - whether to ban the handful of few abusers to preserve a playstyle or ban the playstyle for simplicity is up for debate. Personally, if there's no easy way to decisively pinpoint the problem, the next course of action would be to make the decision that would provide the most favorable outcome. Banning Drizzle has a threat of precipitating an imbalance in the currently balanced powers of weather. Without Rain, Sun may become OP, and we may end up banning Drought. With no Sun or Rain, Sand will become the "default weather," and our ban-happy selves may end up banning Stoutland, Landorus, hell even Terrakion, or maybe even Sandstream altogether. Thundurus and Manaphy will most likely return to OU. In the end, banning Rain would potentially precipitate more bans that will restrict the metagame to a few dominant Fighting-types, Dragon-, and Steel-types. Not my picture of a diverse or an enjoyable playstyle - more like stagnant and even more centralized around whatever OU mons that are left (Terrakion, Keldeo, Heatran, Scizor, Latios, Salamence, etc). If we can ban one or even two more abusers to make Rain less of an issue, I'd much rather prefer this than banning Drizzle just b/c 3+ mons are broken in it. Like I said above, there are many non-broken mons that benefit from Rain, and I don't believe it's desirable to lose such benefits rain bestow to these Pokemon for the sake of a few OP mons. Of course there comes a point where banning so many Pokemon broken in Drizzle will prove more damaging to meta diversity than banning Drizzle, but I personally think we haven't reached that threshold yet, especially with Manaphy and THundurus-I being the only Pokemon banished to Ubers because of rain. Is freeing Manaphy and Thundurus-I worth banning Drizzle and potentially Drought and Sand, thereby nerfing several Pokemon that benefit from these weather in the process? PS: This has nothing to do with OU Council transparency, but it's relevant to the other topic at hand (how-to-handle Drizzle) __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official! Last edited by Pocket; Dec 25th, 2012 at 8:23:33 PM.