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Melee Mewtwo · Dec 26th, 2012, 6:13:32 AM

I feel defensive picks should be avoided if possible. Yes, they are good at countering but they are also very easy to counter. This lets the opposing team snowball theirs picks by stacking more and more offensive mons that will be difficult to ultimately counter. (especially in such an anti-Stall metagame like this one) Deo-D is a quite a different situation from Celebi. First, it was the last pick so there wasn't a worry about it being countered. (which is why I feel Team 1 should save their last pick solely for their hazards lead as that avoids counter leading and maximizes efficiancy) Secondly, Hazards is harder to play around than T-Wave. It is fairly easy to pick a dedicated paralysis absorber (without Perish Song, Kyurem-B has no problem switching in and setting up so Celebii is pretty much already countered) and continue playing with little worry. On the other hand, hazards are directly helping in the goal of this project by weakening those counters making some of them just checks. It is also more to get rid of or avoid as it requires the use of a Spinner (which has to find the turn to pull it off while getting past any spin blockers) or a Magic Bouncer (which are fairly defensive themselves and can be beat by appropriate coverage moves). Thirdly, defensive mons are easier to trap. Sure some can escape, but very many can't without having to bend backwards by opting for Shed Shell or running special spreads and movesets. Even with Baton Pass, Celebi can't avoid a Specs Gothitelle's Signal Beam once it manages to switch-in.

Scizor is actually a very big deal as it can do massive damage to both Heatran and Keldeo with Superpower while forming an epic Volt-Turn core and adding a Pursuit trapper. (Abomasnow actually doesn't have a problem with Scizor as Substitute lets it scout which move it is going to be locked into while taking out half its HP with Focus Punch. Worst case scenario, it is annoying once but not twice)

Calcs

("Hate" is a strong word. I actually LOVE Stall and prefer it to any other play-style, just not in this project.)

Dec 26th, 2012, 6:13:32 AM	#437
Melee Mewtwo Dat Lugiass Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 672 France	I feel defensive picks should be avoided if possible. Yes, they are good at countering but they are also very easy to counter. This lets the opposing team snowball theirs picks by stacking more and more offensive mons that will be difficult to ultimately counter. (especially in such an anti-Stall metagame like this one) Deo-D is a quite a different situation from Celebi. First, it was the last pick so there wasn't a worry about it being countered. (which is why I feel Team 1 should save their last pick solely for their hazards lead as that avoids counter leading and maximizes efficiancy) Secondly, Hazards is harder to play around than T-Wave. It is fairly easy to pick a dedicated paralysis absorber (without Perish Song, Kyurem-B has no problem switching in and setting up so Celebii is pretty much already countered) and continue playing with little worry. On the other hand, hazards are directly helping in the goal of this project by weakening those counters making some of them just checks. It is also more to get rid of or avoid as it requires the use of a Spinner (which has to find the turn to pull it off while getting past any spin blockers) or a Magic Bouncer (which are fairly defensive themselves and can be beat by appropriate coverage moves). Thirdly, defensive mons are easier to trap. Sure some can escape, but very many can't without having to bend backwards by opting for Shed Shell or running special spreads and movesets. Even with Baton Pass, Celebi can't avoid a Specs Gothitelle's Signal Beam once it manages to switch-in. Scizor is actually a very big deal as it can do massive damage to both Heatran and Keldeo with Superpower while forming an epic Volt-Turn core and adding a Pursuit trapper. (Abomasnow actually doesn't have a problem with Scizor as Substitute lets it scout which move it is going to be locked into while taking out half its HP with Focus Punch. Worst case scenario, it is annoying once but not twice) Calcs 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 410-484 (126.93 - 149.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 235-277 (72.75 - 85.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ("Hate" is a strong word. I actually LOVE Stall and prefer it to any other play-style, just not in this project.) Last edited by Melee Mewtwo; Jan 25th, 2013 at 11:37:19 AM.