Originally Posted by Fat shrang
About Sand Force, I wouldn't say it's useless per se, but I do agree that the Life Orb set should be removed. The key about Sand Force Hippo is that it means you can run Hippo without Sand Stream. This mean it can work as a wall for non-sand teams, like rain and sun. Sand Force Hippowdon especially does well on sun teams as a check to Terrakion. The moveset would be exactly the same, so I'd suggest slashing Sand Force after Sand Stream, then add an AC paragraph on either or both of the sets to highlight the advantages of using Hippowdon on rain and sun teams.
Originally Posted by Fat ginganinja
I had good success with LO Hippowdon in BW2. Its a good set, not exactly amazing, but still good enough for a set IMO. Having to run Tyranitar with Hippowdon is prolly the sets biggest weakness, however Double Sand does this without much trouble and its pretty easy to fake having SS on Hippowdon anyway (since you bring it in under Sand often).
Personally, I think all Hippowdon really needs is an scms fix but if you want to go ahead with this please add the LO Hippowdon set.
What does the Sand Force set add that can't be better covered by Landorus-T?
Defensively, Sand Force Hippowdon is outclassed:
CB (Neutral) Terrakion Close Combat vs 252/4 Hippowdon: 61% - 72%
-1 CB (Neutral) Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252/0 Landorus-T: 37% - 44%
CB (Neutral) Terrakion Close Combat vs 252/4 Donphan: 64% - 76%
Admittedly, it takes hits better than 252/4 Donphan. But Donphan brings Ice Shard and Rapid Spin to the table. Sand Force Hippowdon ends up being too slow but not tanky enough to do anything signifcant.
Offensively, Sand Force Hippowdon IS stronger:
252+ LO Sand Force Hippowdon Earthquake vs. Terrakion: 183% - 217%
252+ LO Hippowdon Earthquake vs Terrakion: 142% - 168%
252+ Landorus-T Earthquake vs Terrakion: 131% - 155%
Pros of Landorus-T:
Leftovers instead of LO
Can actually take two hits from CB Terrakion
Avoids Spikes and Toxic Spikes
Ground Immunity, Fighting resistance, Bug resistance, Grass neutrality
Utility with Intimidate and U-turn.
Not dependant on Sand to be at full power.
Pros of SF Hippowdon
Stronger, even outside Sand
Rock resistance, only 2x Ice Weak
Faking double sand
I saw merit for LO Sand Force Hippowdon in BW1, but with the introduction of Landorus-T, I feel like it's curtains for that set, as any Landorus-T set can be better tailored to people's teams. Slack Off isn't enough of a merit to bring to the table when you fail to avoid most 2HKOs specially and physically.
I'm making attempts to convince you both. You guys could be right, but I just don't see any proof.