[magic9mushroom]

Originally Posted by Fat Nyara

1. Wrap is a bug. But with a single difference; is a bug of a bug, that can multiply it's power with other bug, in other words, with AgiliWrap Dragonite, you're abussing of 3 bugs at the same time, that's a bit different as it's the unique combination of 3 bugs at the same time, so, you can even see it so glitched that is similar to use a glitchmon like Missigno, and stuff.

The hell?

2. Some people doesn't care about those bugs, but even then, AgiliWrap doesn't have "surefire counters", the unique things inmune to it are Gengar/Haunter/Gastly, and they CAN'T beat Dragonite 1vs1 unless you reserve your Sleep Clause for it, and if you fail a single hypnosis (40% of chance), you losed the game.

Dragonite has what, a 4-5HKO with Blizzard vs. a guaranteed 4HKO with Night Shade?

Paralize? Somewhat, but Agility neutralizes the drop of speed.

Thunder Wave is still a more-than-1for1 trade in moves.

Hard hitters? Only Jynx and Lapras can make it suffer, but they suffer a lot by hands of Dragonite, and they have to double-switch with him as they can't switch-in.

Lapras can't switch into Dragonite? Lapras switches into Dragonite just fine. So does Cloyster.

Explode? He survive weak explosions, and can just switch-out with the strongers. Sleep? Your unique way to "check" it, 60-75% chance, but Dragonite can just switch-out, make a partner absorb the sleep, and claim it's autowin.

Point me to where I said "sleep checks Dragonite"...?

(I mean, obviously it does, but Sleep Clause makes it irrelevant as you pointed out.)

So, yeah, if you call "bother to defend against Wrap" by using a team of 6 strong exploders as your unique way to avoid the high chance of autolose, or praying for a miss (low chance), then I don't know, good luck?

Or, y'know, use Rhydon and PP-stall it, or have Gengar and hit it with something to put it in 3HKO range as it sets up, or fake it into Hyper Beaming Cloyster, or hit it with paralysis as it sets up and then Rest or Recover-loop it?

(I've successfully walled Dragonite with Withdraw Slowbro before. That was kinda hilarious.)

Paralysis still help a bunch, but even with that, Dragonite can still K.O at least 1 or 2 Pokémon with not need of high luck, and with Wrap allowed, you can just use a second wrapper like Agiliwrap Dragonair, and most probably sweep.

Dragonite doesn't switch into much besides Snorlax or Goldon, and even those aren't completely safe.

Even Mewtwo lose at the hands of Agiliwrap Dragonite, and Mewtwo is not able to "suresweep" always as Dragonite can with minimal luck, so, Agiliwrap Dragonite is even stronger than the uber, I think that's more than enough for a ban. It's just "I push the victory button, and I have a 75%+ chance of autowin, yay", so, it's not even healthy, as it's hardly different from things like the OHKO moves (protip: Wrap is stronger).

Have you actually ever used Dragonite against a good player? I have, and it's almost as hard to use as Slowbro. The main difference is that crappy players still generally have a clue about how to beat Slowbro, while they just sit there and die to Dragonite. As you clearly do.

3. Wrap moves without Agility are far from being broken on it's own, as you can just switch between faster Pokémon and aiming for the miss, and then punish him, but they are still strong. And it's variants are far from being broken, too, as your chances to sweep are pretty shaky, and it's users are not as great, powerful, or fast, but AgiliMoltres is almost as dangerous than AgiliDragonite, but with less chance of success (still high).

Cloyster's good, being basically an RBY U-turner, but it's not very threatening on its own.

Your mention of AgiliSpin Moltres as a credible sweeper threat has just made you lose all credibility, btw. :P