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Remedy · Feb 7th, 2013, 9:51:34 AM

Hi, I'm happy to see that some people use my core made of Deoxys-D/SashGar/LOWeavile. Well, I even see that you got Fighting Gem Breloom which makes this RMT pretty similar to mine. And the remaining pokemons being a Water and a Dragon pokemon (and no steel) the teams all in all are really close.

Thus, I must admit that I'm really sad to see people saying "Wow your core is amazing" when they mostly criticized it in my RMT. Whatever, we don't share the same popularity I guess.

However, I'm probably the one who played this core the most so maybe my advices could help you.
Before talking about weaknesses and all, I'm gonna explain what is really bothering me with this team. You made some different choices in the teambuilding and they are sets I don't understand.

- First, Deoxys-D. This set is really interesting, and Princess Bri (who created this set first iirc) had a brilliant idea by using Skill Swap. But, this makes no sense in this particular case. This set is made to beat Magic Bouncers mainly (and Prankster, but they are few on the ladder, especially at a high level, it's also cool against pokemon based on their ability like Chlorophyl sweepers for instance). And in the core you're using, there is Weavile.
So here is my wonder, why would you use Skill Swap when you could just switch to Weavile and trap a Magic Bouncer (thus getting a kill). The bet is just the same so there is not logic in using Skill Swap when you have a fast Pursuiter at your disposal. But I agree that Bri's set is pretty cool and it gives you some originality.

- Second, there is one thing I don't like at all in a RMT, this is the /. You Gengar set, you slashed probably the two most important moves leaving you the choice to say "yes, but this pokemon is killed by HP Fire, and this one by Destiny Bond". I'm gonna ignore the / then, and consider that you don't have HP Fire since I can't really rate a 5 moveslots pokemon.
Without HP Fire, you're weak as hell you Scizor. In fact, your team is weak as hell to Scizor in any case, but at least with HP Fire on Gengar, you have a good shot at luring it.
However, the things bothering me is Taunt. This move, makes no sense on a Focus Sash Gengar, it is just too risky. Forretress will Gyro Ball you, that's all, same goes for Ferrothorn. It would be really stupid to risk the Sash like that when the set needs it so much. In a HO you can't afford taking risky bets like that at the cost of an useful moveslot.

So, this is no surprise that the changes you did to my core don't fit me obviously. But Skill Swap is really out of place in this core in my opinion, and Taunt is weird in a HO on a Sash pokemon frail as Gengar. But I must admit that you have a lot of testosterone to use it.

The changes of Jimbon seem really cool by the way, and patch the unlogical Skill Swap use nicely. I'm totally supporting this since you'll have to make a choice between Pursuit and Skill Swap.

Now for the weaknesses :

- Okay, obviously Volcarona as mentionned.

- As I said, Scizor is a BIG one, and people may not realise it at first glance. In fact, you can kill it with chomp but... But the thing is that Scizor is one of the few pokemons that can switch on Weavile safely. And what happens next is that you have to switch your Weavile out as he U-Turn
Now my question, who in your team can eat a CB Scizor's U-Turn ?
Gengar can, but you lose the Sash AND the momentum pretty badly, this is huge.
The rest of your team gets 2HKO'd at best.

Finally, Scizor's Bullet Punch will clean your team badly in late game.
And well, a SD set can be a big trouble for you, same goes for a Scarf set. In other words, a pokemon in the top ranking will put a big pressure on your team no matter which version he's running.
Here, I had Keldeo to fully stop him and take U-Turn (Dragonite too) if needed, you just have no way to take them.

- Another weaknesses is your lack of Scarf. While people seem to like it here "because on a HO you can't get locked etc", it opens your team to many things.
Thanks god, you have Priorities, so it's cool in theory.. in theory because in fact, it will never work like that.
Let's assume that you lose Breloom, Scarf Terrakion will crush the WHOLE team. Same goes for many scarf and for faster pokemons like Stoutland who can spam Return and kill everybody
Once you lost Weavile, Lati@s will just win the game on their own. An offensive Starmie aswell for instance. Venusaur also.

So, you're really weak to many things (if I had to compare with my team) because your defensive backbone is just not good (but in comparison of my team, you're more powerful and flexible for the user). Chomp and Kingdra with no Scarf and Steel and 0 bug resistance (when we know that U-Turn ruins your momentum).

- Another weakness would be Kyurem-B Scarf. "Wow ? what is this guy talking about, he has Breloom". Yes but.. I'll take Scarf Kyu as an example, but it works for almost any "surprise Scarf". Let's say that you got Weavile, he puts Kyurem-B. You'll stay in.
And when I was playing my team, I was just AFRAID as hell of Kyurem-B scarf (and I had Keldeo's scarf, but surprise Scarf force you to sac a pokemon you don't always want to sac just to scout the set). Because, you have no choice, you're forced to stay in and press Low Kick to discover if it's a Scarf, but if it's a Scarf, you lost a really valuable pokemon, and maybe a REALLY valuable one for the match-up. The icying on the cake, you don't 0HKO it with Mach Punch if he is as full life, and if you don't have Fighting Gem ready (if I was the Kyurem-B player, I'd be really patient and use it in late game), you won't even KO it after SR damage.
Aaaand, if Breloom is dead, you probably just lost the game. It works for other surprise scarfs.

Now you'll wonder, "when will I lose my Weavile/Breloom, I'm not dumb !". Of course you're not, but I can think about plenty of situations when you'll be forced to sacrifice one of these mons (just the example of Kyurem-B and surprise scarf could work, imagine he puts Kyu on Weavile, you alost HAVE TO let it die to see the set).
Let's say, you got Deoxys-D and he leads Scizor, then U-Turn to Terrakion. You did SR the first turn, and now you decide to Spikes/Taunt as he finishes you with Terrak (or something like that). And the, he substitute.
This, is, terrible. Because now, you're forced to sac someone. If you can sac Kingdra, but Rock Gem SE or LO CC can OHKO you.
You can Sac Chomp also but you lose your main wall breaker. You can try to 1V1 wih Gar, but you'll have to rely on a Focus Miss and he could sub untill he gets this Salac Boost.

Aaand, probably that in the end, you'll have to use this Fighting Gem and show Breloom's set (because Weavile can't outspeed Salac version when it's activated). You lose the momentum in the process and Breloom is facing now a pokemon that can outspeed and kill it (why not Latios) and you'll have to switch or sac it (depends if you predict a Scarf version or not).

And obviously, who knows if he will not just switch out ? In the end you lost Deoxys-D and a pokemon for a short momentum and SR (or SR+Spikes, but then Terrak did SD!).

- Keldeo is almost autowin if Scarfed. Let's face it, HPumps will do a ton and Kingdra can be walled easily (so he will just switch out if needed), on the other hand, the only pokemons able to take Secret Swords are Deoxys-D and Gar.. and those two won't be alive for very long. I had Dragonite and this was a huge plus for me. But even with Dragonite, Keldeo was a top threat. Here, I just think that he kills the whole team with few efforts. And the LO/ExpertBelt w/e offensive set with CM for instance.. he really kills everybody, you'd have to have Gar and Fighting Gem ready I think (but he can just switch and sweep your later).

If I spoke so much about the weaknesses it is not to bash the team for free, but to give the best analysis I could. Moreover, those weaknesses are pretty symptomatic of a HO team so it's really something hard to avoid. On the other hand, your match-up against a defensive team not using the pokemons that I mentionned is really good.

Now the changes :

As I said, Jimbon changes are really good. Scarf Jirachi over Weavile can help you a lot. However, I can see you being REALLY weak to Sun Venusaur now and you don't fix Volcarona's issue at all.

So, if you want to try something else, I'd opt for a ScarfZor.
A set with U-Turn/Pursuit/BulletPunch/AerialAce could work. The point is, you can lead with it easily if you suspect a lead Volcarona and score a early kill with Aerial Ace (or at least, hit him hard enough to put him in the range of any priority). You lost Weavile, but Scizor can still help you againt Starmie especially with the surprise factor of Scarf Pursuit. Same goes for the non Scarfed Lati@s. I really think that this set could patch many weaknesses. You can also score a surprise kill on Keldeo, take U-Turns, kill Terrakion or Kyurem-B with Bullet Punch and take on of their hit (you don't need to sac a pokemon anymore).
You're still not "fixing" the Sun issue, but at least, Scizor can Bullet Punch Venusaur and force him to HP Fire (thus losing another 10%). Jirachi can't do that. Obviously, his U-Turn hit far more and his coverage is actually really good.

So yup, at the moment, I feel like this set could bring something new in this team, add some cool surprise value and kill many of your threats. You lose "wall breaking" power, but Scizor is an insane asset against any offensive team, like Weavile was, but he got the bulk you need !

(and you can still kill Celebi/Tias for Breloom, you switch in easily, and score a surprise kill with U-Turn, if they play safe and switch away, you won momentum ! Jirachi's U-Turn are too weak sometimes).

Let's say a spread with enough speed to outspeed Zam with Scarf like 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe Jolly giving you a good HP number aswell.

- Drop Taunt, get HP Fire + Destiny Bond. It even helps you against Venusaur, you need this HP Fire, and Destiny Bond is such a game breaking move.
Give Gengar 244 Spe with HP Fire and put the rest in HP.

- I'm also on the train to change Dragon Tail for Sword Dance on Garchomp. Once again, there is no logical explanation to justify the use of this move here, so I'd drop it for coverage or raw power. Sword Dance deals with the pokemons you mentionned.

THE SETS :

...

I know I could look like a massiv bitch here by criticizing your team and saying that it does look mine too much. But I believe that it's a legitimate reaction given that the "heart" and the added value of my team is pretty much used here without saying where it's coming from. And if you look at my RMT in my signature, you'll see that I did myself talk about EVERY little idea (even the tiniest one) that I took from someone/something (even when I found it myself, just as a show of respect to people who published it first).
You maybe have imagined the core with Focus Sash HP Fire, LO Weavile, Fighting Gem Breloom etc.. on your own, but even if it's the case, it has been RMTed before so I guess it would not have hurt to talk about it in the Introduction.
Whatever, if you can deal with my bitching, you'll realise that my comment deals with pretty relevant points and I can tell you that I know what I'm talking about given the close nature of our teams.

I truely hope I helped.

And no TL;DR since I want you to read to understand my line of logic x)

Feb 7th, 2013, 9:51:34 AM	#16
Remedy Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 476 I tell you I'm a Tensai	Hi, I'm happy to see that some people use my core made of Deoxys-D/SashGar/LOWeavile. Well, I even see that you got Fighting Gem Breloom which makes this RMT pretty similar to mine. And the remaining pokemons being a Water and a Dragon pokemon (and no steel) the teams all in all are really close. Thus, I must admit that I'm really sad to see people saying "Wow your core is amazing" when they mostly criticized it in my RMT. Whatever, we don't share the same popularity I guess. However, I'm probably the one who played this core the most so maybe my advices could help you. Before talking about weaknesses and all, I'm gonna explain what is really bothering me with this team. You made some different choices in the teambuilding and they are sets I don't understand. - First, Deoxys-D. This set is really interesting, and Princess Bri (who created this set first iirc) had a brilliant idea by using Skill Swap. But, this makes no sense in this particular case. This set is made to beat Magic Bouncers mainly (and Prankster, but they are few on the ladder, especially at a high level, it's also cool against pokemon based on their ability like Chlorophyl sweepers for instance). And in the core you're using, there is Weavile. So here is my wonder, why would you use Skill Swap when you could just switch to Weavile and trap a Magic Bouncer (thus getting a kill). The bet is just the same so there is not logic in using Skill Swap when you have a fast Pursuiter at your disposal. But I agree that Bri's set is pretty cool and it gives you some originality. - Second, there is one thing I don't like at all in a RMT, this is the /. You Gengar set, you slashed probably the two most important moves leaving you the choice to say "yes, but this pokemon is killed by HP Fire, and this one by Destiny Bond". I'm gonna ignore the / then, and consider that you don't have HP Fire since I can't really rate a 5 moveslots pokemon. Without HP Fire, you're weak as hell you Scizor. In fact, your team is weak as hell to Scizor in any case, but at least with HP Fire on Gengar, you have a good shot at luring it. However, the things bothering me is Taunt. This move, makes no sense on a Focus Sash Gengar, it is just too risky. Forretress will Gyro Ball you, that's all, same goes for Ferrothorn. It would be really stupid to risk the Sash like that when the set needs it so much. In a HO you can't afford taking risky bets like that at the cost of an useful moveslot. So, this is no surprise that the changes you did to my core don't fit me obviously. But Skill Swap is really out of place in this core in my opinion, and Taunt is weird in a HO on a Sash pokemon frail as Gengar. But I must admit that you have a lot of testosterone to use it. The changes of Jimbon seem really cool by the way, and patch the unlogical Skill Swap use nicely. I'm totally supporting this since you'll have to make a choice between Pursuit and Skill Swap. *Now for the weaknesses :* - Okay, obviously Volcarona as mentionned. - As I said, Scizor is a BIG one, and people may not realise it at first glance. In fact, you can kill it with chomp but... But the thing is that Scizor is one of the few pokemons that can switch on Weavile safely. And what happens next is that you have to switch your Weavile out as he U-Turn Now my question, who in your team can eat a CB Scizor's U-Turn ? Gengar can, but you lose the Sash AND the momentum pretty badly, this is huge. The rest of your team gets 2HKO'd at best. Finally, Scizor's Bullet Punch will clean your team badly in late game. And well, a SD set can be a big trouble for you, same goes for a Scarf set. In other words, a pokemon in the top ranking will put a big pressure on your team no matter which version he's running. Here, I had Keldeo to fully stop him and take U-Turn (Dragonite too) if needed, you just have no way to take them. - Another weaknesses is your lack of Scarf. While people seem to like it here "because on a HO you can't get locked etc", it opens your team to many things. Thanks god, you have Priorities, so it's cool in theory.. in theory because in fact, it will never work like that. Let's assume that you lose Breloom, Scarf Terrakion will crush the WHOLE team. Same goes for many scarf and for faster pokemons like Stoutland who can spam Return and kill everybody Once you lost Weavile, Lati@s will just win the game on their own. An offensive Starmie aswell for instance. Venusaur also. So, you're really weak to many things (if I had to compare with my team) because your defensive backbone is just not good (but in comparison of my team, you're more powerful and flexible for the user). Chomp and Kingdra with no Scarf and Steel and 0 bug resistance (when we know that U-Turn ruins your momentum). - Another weakness would be Kyurem-B Scarf. "Wow ? what is this guy talking about, he has Breloom". Yes but.. I'll take Scarf Kyu as an example, but it works for almost any "surprise Scarf". Let's say that you got Weavile, he puts Kyurem-B. You'll stay in. And when I was playing my team, I was just AFRAID as hell of Kyurem-B scarf (and I had Keldeo's scarf, but surprise Scarf force you to sac a pokemon you don't always want to sac just to scout the set). Because, you have no choice, you're forced to stay in and press Low Kick to discover if it's a Scarf, but if it's a Scarf, you lost a really valuable pokemon, and maybe a REALLY valuable one for the match-up. The icying on the cake, you don't 0HKO it with Mach Punch if he is as full life, and if you don't have Fighting Gem ready (if I was the Kyurem-B player, I'd be really patient and use it in late game), you won't even KO it after SR damage. Aaaand, if Breloom is dead, you probably just lost the game. It works for other surprise scarfs. Now you'll wonder, "when will I lose my Weavile/Breloom, I'm not dumb !". Of course you're not, but I can think about plenty of situations when you'll be forced to sacrifice one of these mons (just the example of Kyurem-B and surprise scarf could work, imagine he puts Kyu on Weavile, you alost HAVE TO let it die to see the set). Let's say, you got Deoxys-D and he leads Scizor, then U-Turn to Terrakion. You did SR the first turn, and now you decide to Spikes/Taunt as he finishes you with Terrak (or something like that). And the, he substitute. This, is, terrible. Because now, you're forced to sac someone. If you can sac Kingdra, but Rock Gem SE or LO CC can OHKO you. You can Sac Chomp also but you lose your main wall breaker. You can try to 1V1 wih Gar, but you'll have to rely on a Focus Miss and he could sub untill he gets this Salac Boost. Aaand, probably that in the end, you'll have to use this Fighting Gem and show Breloom's set (because Weavile can't outspeed Salac version when it's activated). You lose the momentum in the process and Breloom is facing now a pokemon that can outspeed and kill it (why not Latios) and you'll have to switch or sac it (depends if you predict a Scarf version or not). And obviously, who knows if he will not just switch out ? In the end you lost Deoxys-D and a pokemon for a short momentum and SR (or SR+Spikes, but then Terrak did SD!). - Keldeo is almost autowin if Scarfed. Let's face it, HPumps will do a ton and Kingdra can be walled easily (so he will just switch out if needed), on the other hand, the only pokemons able to take Secret Swords are Deoxys-D and Gar.. and those two won't be alive for very long. I had Dragonite and this was a huge plus for me. But even with Dragonite, Keldeo was a top threat. Here, I just think that he kills the whole team with few efforts. And the LO/ExpertBelt w/e offensive set with CM for instance.. he really kills everybody, you'd have to have Gar and Fighting Gem ready I think (but he can just switch and sweep your later). If I spoke so much about the weaknesses it is not to bash the team for free, but to give the best analysis I could. Moreover, those weaknesses are pretty symptomatic of a HO team so it's really something hard to avoid. On the other hand, your match-up against a defensive team not using the pokemons that I mentionned is really good. *Now the changes :* As I said, *Jimbon changes are really good. Scarf Jirachi over Weavile can help you a lot. However, I can see you being REALLY weak to Sun Venusaur now and you don't fix Volcarona's issue at all.* So, if you want to try something else, I'd opt for a ScarfZor. A set with U-Turn/Pursuit/BulletPunch/AerialAce could work. The point is, you can lead with it easily if you suspect a lead Volcarona and score a early kill with Aerial Ace (or at least, hit him hard enough to put him in the range of any priority). You lost Weavile, but Scizor can still help you againt Starmie especially with the surprise factor of Scarf Pursuit. Same goes for the non Scarfed Lati@s. I really think that this set could patch many weaknesses. You can also score a surprise kill on Keldeo, take U-Turns, kill Terrakion or Kyurem-B with Bullet Punch and take on of their hit (you don't need to sac a pokemon anymore). You're still not "fixing" the Sun issue, but at least, Scizor can Bullet Punch Venusaur and force him to HP Fire (thus losing another 10%). Jirachi can't do that. Obviously, his U-Turn hit far more and his coverage is actually really good. So yup, at the moment, I feel like this set could bring something new in this team, add some cool surprise value and kill many of your threats. You lose "wall breaking" power, but Scizor is an insane asset against any offensive team, like Weavile was, but he got the bulk you need ! (and you can still kill Celebi/Tias for Breloom, you switch in easily, and score a surprise kill with U-Turn, if they play safe and switch away, you won momentum ! Jirachi's U-Turn are too weak sometimes). Let's say a spread with enough speed to outspeed Zam with Scarf like 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe Jolly giving you a good HP number aswell. - Drop Taunt, get HP Fire + Destiny Bond. It even helps you against Venusaur, you need this HP Fire, and Destiny Bond is such a game breaking move. Give Gengar 244 Spe with HP Fire and put the rest in HP. - I'm also on the train to change Dragon Tail for Sword Dance on Garchomp. Once again, there is no logical explanation to justify the use of this move here, so I'd drop it for coverage or raw power. Sword Dance deals with the pokemons you mentionned. THE SETS : ... Scizor @ Choice Scarf Technician 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe Jolly Nature - Aerial Ace - Bullet Punch - U-Turn - Pursuit I know I could look like a massiv bitch here by criticizing your team and saying that it does look mine too much. But I believe that it's a legitimate reaction given that the "heart" and the added value of my team is pretty much used here without saying where it's coming from. And if you look at my RMT in my signature, you'll see that I did myself talk about EVERY little idea (even the tiniest one) that I took from someone/something (even when I found it myself, just as a show of respect to people who published it first). You maybe have imagined the core with Focus Sash HP Fire, LO Weavile, Fighting Gem Breloom etc.. on your own, but even if it's the case, it has been RMTed before so I guess it would not have hurt to talk about it in the Introduction. Whatever, if you can deal with my bitching, you'll realise that my comment deals with pretty relevant points and I can tell you that I know what I'm talking about given the close nature of our teams. I truely hope I helped. And no TL;DR since I want you to read to understand my line of logic x) __________________ We must not let daylight in upon the magic. *VM me for a rate in BW2 OU, my advices are free for now* Check my last RMT -Friend's Prophecy- ! And give me your opinion ! http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3482863* Last edited by Remedy; Feb 7th, 2013 at 10:12:36 AM.