Originally Posted by Fat jc104
I find it somewhat irritating that sunmon gets its own category while other playstyles are all dismissed for together being too vague.
A sand abuser is a very solid idea for this CAP. Bearing in mind that I think it's best to deal with water types via water immunity ability, the only obvious way to make a sun mon is to make a fire type. Anything without a water immunity is at severe risk of being skittled by rain. At best we can get a 2x resist without using a dragon or water-type. A 2x resist is very shaky when it comes to checking water types in the rain - without significant investment and good defenses, it's probably looking at a 2HKO from SpecsToed and Specs Keldeo. Grass, the only way to get said 2x resist, is one of the more common OU types, is actively disadvantaged by sun, and is bad against both dragons and steels. It's also weak to Hurricane. Fire types are also fairly bad against dragons, and tend to rely heavily on their sun. Sandmon would most likely be a rock type. For starters, it's a much rarer type than grass (and reading the concept, the usage of the CAP will be BY FAR the greatest contributor to the additional usage of underused types - no reason why it shouldn't count). It isn't inherently disadvantaged against dragons. It fits onto a more common playstyle with a more advantageous matchup against rain (don't get my wrong, I still think sun is advantageous against rain). It would probably fit on to various other playstyles better than sunmon. So overall, I think sand is a decent choice, and is probably the better option if we decide to go after dragons rather than steels.
I agree with you that we should try to get more direction going for the help a playstyle mon because there aren't enough posts like yours that show why a sand mon or a hail mon could work. I would've done hail already but i'm not very familiar with it but I might look into something else like voltturn and post that later tonight.
However, what you said about sun mon probably having to be a fire type and sand mon probably being a rock type, i dont really agree with. The best sun mon of Gen 5 in my opinion was Genesect and he effectively had a 6x weakness under the sun and didn't resist water type attacks. However, Genesect paired up with dugtrio could deal with everything that sun teams had trouble with up to that point, namely heatran and the lati twins. Also genesect could threaten most members of rain teams with a plus one thunderbolt. I think this is a better way to look at how we should build our sun mon, sand mon etc. We don't have to necessarily make it a great abuser of the weather itself but rather a great threat or counter to what those teams generally don't like seeing.
That's also why I liked Kavatika's suggestion of what I would describe as Help A Counter. Here we would find a poke that had great synergy with the counter of a certain playstyle, such as the example of celebi appreciating something that could help it take on tornadus, maybe something like a electric/ghost which takes all of tornadus' common moves. I think the best part of this direction is that we would force the opposing playstyle to run something that normally is not seen on those types of teams.
EDIT: Also, to jc104 I dont think we should count cap5 to the underused typing change because then we effectively are just re-doing the concept of cap4. From my understanding we want to effect the metagame as a whole and help usher in underused threats that are looked over due to their typing.