Smogon Community - View Single Post - CAP 5 - Part 2

erisia · Feb 16th, 2013, 12:08:38 PM

After some discussion on IRC, I've decided to revise my position a little. If our primary aim is to boost Fire-types and nerf Water-types through the increased popularity of Sun teams, then we need to make Sun-teams able to contend with Rain (and Sand) teams on a more even footing. This isn't a matter of making another sweeper (Sun already has fantastic sweepers such as Venusaur, Volcarona, and Infernape while Sunlight is up), but in compensating for the general weaknesses of Sun teams.

Politoed >> Ninetales.
So many slots on a Sun team are dedicated to support niches.
Lack of defense.

I think a good way for CAP5 to promote Sun teams would be to fill these support niches, such as spinning/hazard blocking, entry hazards, trapping Politoed, and providing a defensive backbone/pivot for Sun teams to fall back on. By filling a load of niches and performing these roles well, you could free up a slot on your Sun team (eg, you wouldn't need Dugtrio and Xatu / Espeon / Donphan / Spinner, as CAP5 would fill both niches) and thus use either an extra Fire-type sweeper or something to deal with Sun's other issues, like Dragon types or Heatran (Mamoswine!)

The question for this thread, however, is how CAP's typing would help it out in this case. Bearing in mind that the aim of this CAP is to change type popularity, I think that Ghost typing would be a great choice. Firstly, it lacks exploitable weaknesses for Rain teams to abuse, meaning if you've got the Sunlight going, Rain teams are going to have a hard time breaking through CAP5 if it has sufficient bulk. This means that it will find opportunities for filling support niches, such as Rapid Spinning hazards away, providing hazards, maybe even using Sunny Day to relieve some pressure from Ninetales. Secondly, it would promote the use of STAB Ghost / Dark attacks to break through it; bearing in mind that the only OU candidates for both types are Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Gengar, and Jellicent, this would promote underused types and bring them to the forefront. Having a bulky Ghost would make Dark Pulse Hydreigon, Scrafty, Sharpedo, and even Zoroark more popular choices.

As for trapping Politoed, I don't see how this can be done outside of moves/abilities, so that's not really a matter for typing discussion. Ghost typing certainly doesn't hinder these, however, and we can make flavour clones of trapping moves like Magma Storm if necessary.

Without being weak to common coverage moves used by Rain teams, provided that we make the correct choices in subsequent stages, we can create a powerful support Pokemon that Sun Teams would love to use to free up teamslots and thus allow Sun Teams to deal with more threats in general. Rain teams already have the best spinners in the tier (Starmie and Tentacruel) to abuse, and Ferrothorn provides them with hazards, so CAP5 wouldn't boost Rain by anywhere near as much. Sand teams also have Forretress and Ferrothorn to provide hazards, spin, and beat physical Dragons, so again, they wouldn't benefit as much from CAP5 as Sun would. Hail would probably see a lot of benefit to CAP5, but if we're aiming to reshuffle type popularity, that's not exactly a bad thing.

So overall, Ghost sounds like a good way to go with this. Again, if a dual-typing was to be used, it should interfere with CAP5's weaknesses as little as possible, making Ghost/Electric and Ghost/Poison other good candidates. Ghost/Electric jumps out at me because its secondary STAB threatens Water-types so much, so overall, I'm going to go with Ghost/Electric as my preferred choice. The reasoning for Electric-typing is in my previous post. I appreciate this post might be a little poll-jumpy, but frankly, to discuss ways of filling Sun-niches, it's slightly necessary.

Feb 16th, 2013, 12:08:38 PM	#46
erisia (macho) brace yourselves Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 852	After some discussion on IRC, I've decided to revise my position a little. If our primary aim is to boost Fire-types and nerf Water-types through the increased popularity of Sun teams, then we need to make Sun-teams able to contend with Rain (and Sand) teams on a more even footing. This isn't a matter of making another sweeper (Sun already has fantastic sweepers such as Venusaur, Volcarona, and Infernape while Sunlight is up), but in compensating for the general weaknesses of Sun teams. Politoed >> Ninetales. So many slots on a Sun team are dedicated to support niches. Lack of defense. I think a good way for CAP5 to promote Sun teams would be to fill these support niches, such as spinning/hazard blocking, entry hazards, trapping Politoed, and providing a defensive backbone/pivot for Sun teams to fall back on. By filling a load of niches and performing these roles well, you could free up a slot on your Sun team (eg, you wouldn't need Dugtrio and Xatu / Espeon / Donphan / Spinner, as CAP5 would fill both niches) and thus use either an extra Fire-type sweeper or something to deal with Sun's other issues, like Dragon types or Heatran (Mamoswine!) The question for this thread, however, is how CAP's typing would help it out in this case. Bearing in mind that the aim of this CAP is to change type popularity, I think that Ghost typing would be a great choice. Firstly, it lacks exploitable weaknesses for Rain teams to abuse, meaning if you've got the Sunlight going, Rain teams are going to have a hard time breaking through CAP5 if it has sufficient bulk. This means that it will find opportunities for filling support niches, such as Rapid Spinning hazards away, providing hazards, maybe even using Sunny Day to relieve some pressure from Ninetales. Secondly, it would promote the use of STAB Ghost / Dark attacks to break through it; bearing in mind that the only OU candidates for both types are Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Gengar, and Jellicent, this would promote underused types and bring them to the forefront. Having a bulky Ghost would make Dark Pulse Hydreigon, Scrafty, Sharpedo, and even Zoroark more popular choices. As for trapping Politoed, I don't see how this can be done outside of moves/abilities, so that's not really a matter for typing discussion. Ghost typing certainly doesn't hinder these, however, and we can make flavour clones of trapping moves like Magma Storm if necessary. Without being weak to common coverage moves used by Rain teams, provided that we make the correct choices in subsequent stages, we can create a powerful support Pokemon that Sun Teams would love to use to free up teamslots and thus allow Sun Teams to deal with more threats in general. Rain teams already have the best spinners in the tier (Starmie and Tentacruel) to abuse, and Ferrothorn provides them with hazards, so CAP5 wouldn't boost Rain by anywhere near as much. Sand teams also have Forretress and Ferrothorn to provide hazards, spin, and beat physical Dragons, so again, they wouldn't benefit as much from CAP5 as Sun would. Hail would probably see a lot of benefit to CAP5, but if we're aiming to reshuffle type popularity, that's not exactly a bad thing. So overall, Ghost sounds like a good way to go with this. Again, if a dual-typing was to be used, it should interfere with CAP5's weaknesses as little as possible, making Ghost/Electric and Ghost/Poison other good candidates. Ghost/Electric jumps out at me because its secondary STAB threatens Water-types so much, so overall, I'm going to go with Ghost/Electric as my preferred choice. The reasoning for Electric-typing is in my previous post. I appreciate this post might be a little poll-jumpy, but frankly, to discuss ways of filling Sun-niches, it's slightly necessary. __________________ Check out Slowmons: A new metagame where the slowest Pokémon moves first!