Smogon Community - View Single Post - CAP 5 - Part 4

erisia · Feb 26th, 2013, 4:37:05 AM

Another thought that's just slipped my mind (again, possibly concerning Flower Gift) We keep saying that we don't want CAP5 to have absurd special bulk... but having a look at the things we want to threaten us, none of them solely use special attacks, and those that do either have Bug or Fire STAB. I've got a list of things below that still threaten CAP5 if we give it, say, Blissey level bulk while Flower Gift is active and fully invested, while leaving it with modest physical bulk.

Things that still threaten us

That's a pretty big list, and by no means is it exhaustive, and doesn't it look very, very close to our current threat list? Yes Ninetales isn't on there, but bleh, it can still Wisp CAP. So if you're concerned about massive special bulk removing threats from our threat list... that's not the case. And massive special bulk sure makes checking Latios a hell of a lot easier... Even with out Flower Gift, an uninvested 69HP / 180 SpD CAP5 can take a Specs Latios Draco Meteor (or two Scarf Meteors) and follow it up with Life Orb Crunch without dying, meaning it's certainly not useless in Rain, while still getting much better in Sun. Combined with my previous post about Flower Gift, I'm seeing fewer and fewer reasons to think Flower Gift would be broken, as long as we're careful with the Attack stat. Looking back at the criteria I answered from my earlier point, Flower Gift also satisifies points 1) 2) and 3), sorta satisifying point 4) and not being affected by point 5) So at this stage it's either Flower Gift or Chlorophyll for the primary ability imo, as they are more constrictive on stats than the also awesome Harvest.

EDIT: To the below, that's exactly my point. We can give this thing absurd special bulk and it'll still be threatened by the things we want it to be threatened by, as discussed earlier. This is a good thing, as it means CAP can wall latios all day with blissey level bulk while still being threatened by a lot of Fire, Bug, and Ice types.

Feb 26th, 2013, 4:37:05 AM	#71
erisia (macho) brace yourselves Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 860	Another thought that's just slipped my mind (again, possibly concerning Flower Gift) We keep saying that we don't want CAP5 to have absurd special bulk... but having a look at the things we want to threaten us, none of them solely use special attacks, and those that do either have Bug or Fire STAB. I've got a list of things below that still threaten CAP5 if we give it, say, Blissey level bulk while Flower Gift is active and fully invested, while leaving it with modest physical bulk. Things that still threaten us Scizor, lol Ferrothorn, can probably 2HKO with Gyro Ball Dragonite, could either set up on us or kill with Outrage Jirachi, any set with Fire Punch or U-Turn Heatran, still 2HKOs with Balloon Fire Blast Breloom, can Mach Punch us to death Terrakion, if it can switch in safely Keldeo, Secret Sword bypasses SpD Salamence, slightly worse than Dragonite Volcarona, always 2HKOs with Bug Buzz and can set up Skarmory, walls and KOs with Brave Bird Mamoswine, if it can switch in safely Infernape, hits hard with physical STABs, U-Turn Cloyster, can still hit hard Lucario, lol Kyurem-B, lol Toxicroak Conkeldurr Hydreigon, if it has Superpower That's a pretty big list, and by no means is it exhaustive, and doesn't it look very, very close to our current threat list? Yes Ninetales isn't on there, but bleh, it can still Wisp CAP. So if you're concerned about massive special bulk removing threats from our threat list... that's not the case. And massive special bulk sure makes checking Latios a hell of a lot easier... Even with out Flower Gift, an uninvested 69HP / 180 SpD CAP5 can take a Specs Latios Draco Meteor (or two Scarf Meteors) and follow it up with Life Orb Crunch without dying, meaning it's certainly not useless in Rain, while still getting much better in Sun. Combined with my previous post about Flower Gift, I'm seeing fewer and fewer reasons to think Flower Gift would be broken, as long as we're careful with the Attack stat. Looking back at the criteria I answered from my earlier point, Flower Gift also satisifies points 1) 2) and 3), sorta satisifying point 4) and not being affected by point 5) So at this stage it's either Flower Gift or Chlorophyll for the primary ability imo, as they are more constrictive on stats than the also awesome Harvest. EDIT: To the below, that's exactly my point. We can give this thing absurd special bulk and it'll still be threatened by the things we want it to be threatened by, as discussed earlier. This is a good thing, as it means CAP can wall latios all day with blissey level bulk while still being threatened by a lot of Fire, Bug, and Ice types. __________________ Check out Slowmons: A new metagame where the slowest Pokémon moves first! Last edited by erisia; Feb 26th, 2013 at 6:23:02 AM.