[alexwolf]

@AgileTurtle

You didn't get my point. We need to Speed to have more chances to heal and spin, so that we can switch around more and stay on the field less. With high Speed you can affort to make more double switches, as even if you lose some health as you come in, you can then heal back as you will most likely play first when you come in again. This means that with more Speed you can do more pivoting.

And i don't get why say ''Sure Speed makes the CAP a bit better, but why bother''. Isn't our goal to maximize the potential of the CAP as a defensive pivot against Water-types, Lati@s, and some other threats? Of 'course the CAP can do those things even without high Speed, but high Speed helps it do them better, so why shouldn't i go for high Speed?

@Ignus

I am trying to make more of a defensive pivot, as the CAP can't really be threatening offensively with limited coverage and mediocre Attack. So let's compare the CAP to the example of the defensive pivot you mentioned, Ferrothorn, and i will show you why the CAP needs Speed while Ferrothorn does not. Ferrothorn has 12 resistances and immunities, 3 neutralities, and 2 weaknesses. It also has amazing all around bulk, resists SR and is immune to sand. On the other hand the CAP has 7 resistances, 4 neutralities, and 6 weaknesses, as well as mediocre physical bulk. Finally the CAP lacks Leftovers, is hurt by sand, and needs to have Sitrus Berry and be at less than 50% health in order to recover health passively. What does this mean? That Ferrothorn walls much more Pokemon in general, getting more switch-in opportunities, while also being much less prone to residual damage.

The CAP has a typing with a lot of weaknesses, which means that more than half of OU will have a way to threaten it, unlike slow defensive pivots, such as Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, and Jellicent. If the CAP gets at low health it will be significantly more difficult for it to come in again and do something than the other defensive Pokemon, because it is threatened by more Pokemon and is more prone to residual damage (when above 50% health).

Finally, the CAP will have passive recovery only when holding Sitrus berry and is below 50% health, and a slow CAP that utilizes the LumRest combo is extremely prone to residual damage as it is basically a defensive Pokemon without Leftovers.

For all those reasons, my opinion is that the CAP needs a high Speed stat in order to make up for those shortcoming that it has as a defensive Pokemon (lots of weaknesses and more prone to passive damage than other defensive Pokemon).

Originally Posted by Fat DetroitLolcat

alexwolf- Unlike the above spread, this set seems to rely on Lum Berry and Rest to defeat Pokemon such as Latios. Your spread's defensive calculations demonstrate specific reasons for each stat, and I agree with most of the roles you have this Pokemon play. With proper hazard support, this Pokemon will unconditionally defeat Latios, Politoed (barring Focus Blast shenanigans against a defensive CAP5), yet lose to Keldeo and Breloom. Although I do not prefer giving Starmie a chance against us, the Starmie user would have to properly predict to beat CAP5 and if Starmie can predict that well, then it deserves to win. One issue I have with your spread is that you promote a 252 HP/252 Speed spread in the comments, yet I do not believe you spread is conducive to maximizing HP and Speed. The Attack stat in your spread is lacking (naturally, as the PS limit intended it to do), so I believe that any user of your spread would invest in Attack to avoid firing off Horn Leeches from a paltry 200 Attack. Alexwolf, I would also greatly recommend specifying what EVs you assume in your calculations, especially in the "Why this PT and ST" section.

Thx for the nice constructive criticism Lolcat. All of the issues you have with my spread can be addressed with several spreads that i will showcase below. First of all, why do you say that my spread doesn't promote maximizing HP and Speed? Full Speed is nice to outspeed Lati@s, as well as several other offensive Pokemon (such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Tornadus) which is very beneficial. However if one wants to go for a slower and bulkier spread he can easily go for it. While it is true that the Attack is a bit low, the CAP still can deal with what it wants to deal (Lati@s and waters) with a fast spread or a more bulky spread. So enough with the generic talk let me showcase the sets i have been talking about:

Fast Pivot

EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 Spe with a Jolly Nature
Stats: 386 HP / 202 Atk / 168 Def / 93 SpA / 316 SpD / 354 Spe
Possible moveset: Power Whip or Horn Leech / Crunch or Punishment / Rest / Rapid Spin
Item: Lum Berry

What this set does

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This set takes advantage of the 112 Speed to its fullest. With max Speed investment the CAP is able to outspeed Lati@s and either threaten them with a Dark type attack, Rest to weaken the incoming DM, or get a Rapid Spin off before either of the Latis finishes off with HP Fire. It can also act as an ok revenge killer against certain weakened offensive Pokemon weak to its STABs, such as Terrakion and Keldeo. The power of this set lies in its good Speed and the ability to come, take a hit, and then either pivot to a teammate or get a Rapid Spin off. With that much Speed the CAP also needs to spend less time recovering than other slower stat spreads, giving more chances to the CAP to support the team. Overall this may be the best set with this spread, as it does many things and it does them reliably, but still faces the flaws that we want it to (easily walled or set-up on, weak from the physical side, weak to priority). I have already provided calcs for this spread in my stat submission post so if you want them go and check it. The 8 Atk EVs allow the CAP to OHKO Scarf Politoed after SR with Power Whip.

Bulky Pivot

EVs: 252 HP / 164 Atk / 80 SpD / 12 Spe with a Careful Nature
Stats: 386 HP / 241 Atk / 168 Def / 93 SpA / 369 SpD / 263 Spe
Possible moveset: Power Whip or Horn Leech / Payback or Pursuit / Rest or Sub / Rapid Spin
Item: Lum Berry / Sitrus Berry

What this set does

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This set transforms the CAP from a Speedy pivot to a bulky attacker. With the Atk investment the CAP OHKOes Latios after SR with Payback (88.07 - 103.97%), max HP Politoed after SR with Power Whip (87.5 - 103.12%), and 2HKOes 252 HP Latias with Payback (65.93 - 78.02%). With Lum Berry it almost always survives two Specs Draco Meteor from Latios without SR (only 1.17% chance to get 2HKOed) and always lives two LO Draco Meteors from Latios after SR. With Sitrus Berry it obviously survives even two Specs DM after SR. This spread also walls LO Starmie, surviving even two LO Ice Beam after SR and OHKOing back with either Power Whip or Horn Leech (to OHKO with Horn Leech you need SR + 1 LO round). The Speed EVs allow the CAP to outspeed max Speed Timid Politoed and the rest are dumbed to HP and SpD for maximum special bulk. Finally the item options depends on whether you want to counter Latios better and spend less time healing, so go for Sitrus, or if you need the status immunity and insta heal, so go for LumRest.