Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Discussion 8

[Hyra]

Previous Information and Threads:
Poll 7b - Ability
Poll 7a - Ability
Poll 7 - Ability
Poll 6b - Art
Poll 6a - Art
Poll 6 - Art
Part 5 - Base Stats
Part 4a - Base Stat Range
Part 4 - Base Stat Range
Part 3 - Role
Part 2b - Secondary Typing
Part 2a - Secondary Typing
Part 2 - Secondary Typing
Part 1b- Main Typing
Part 1a - Main Typing
Part 1 - Main Typing
The Beginning



Typing: Ghost/Fighting
90 HP / 105 Attack / 90 Defense / 65 Sp. Attack / 110 Sp. Defense / 65 Speed
Total = 525 BST
Will not evolve from an already existing Pokemon

Originally Posted by Fat Abilities

Shed Skin
This Pokémon has a 30% chance of removing Burn, Freeze, Paralysis, Poison, and Sleep at the end of each turn.

Air Lock
While Pokémon with Air Lock are out, the effects of weather are temporarily disabled. Fire and Water moves are at normal power in sun and rain, Rocks have normal Special Defense in sandstorm, SolarBeam has 120 power and takes 2 turns, and Blizzard and Thunder have normal accuracy. The game will report that the weather is still going, however. The weather's effects will return when the Pokémon with Air Lock switches out.

Looks like this:

This thread is about the movepool. Below here I am going to list a tentative movepool. Raise any issues you have with it in this thread. Especially important issues will be outlined after the movepool; these will have bold text voting done separately for each. These issues will be bolded in the movepool. The Egg Move list is tentative, you guys can sound off on which ones you really want. If you feel the level-up movepool is too large, I can remove all the TM moves from the Level Up list. The only problem I have with this is that it removes theme from the list. I will underline these moves.


Level Up Moves:
1. Wrap
1. Bide
3. Sand Tomb
7. Rock Tomb
10. Imprison
14. Arm Thrust
18. Mean Look
21. Glare
24. AncientPower (possible evolution method)
28. Shadow Punch
32. Revenge
36. Power Whip
45. Fighting STAB
52. Hypnosis
52. Nightmare
52. Dream Eater
60. Moonlight

Explanation of Level-Up movepool:
Beginning of movepool is when he is trapped in the tomb. Once the Eye moves come in, someone has broken in. Mummy learns Ancient Power, evolves and goes to town on these guys, which is why Revenge is there instead of Force Palm. Shadow Punch, Power Whip, and the Fighting STAB is him chasing these people around. Moonlight is when he breaks out of the pyramid.

Egg Moves:
Shadow Sneak
Mach Punch
Memento
Spite
Curse
Grudge
Destiny Bond
Pursuit
Ominous Wind
Knock Off
Night Shade
Nasty Plot

Heart Scale Moves
ThunderPunch
Ice Punch
Fire Punch

TMs:
1. Focus Punch
5. Roar
6. Toxic
8. Bulk Up
10. Hidden Power
11. Sunny Day
12. Taunt
15. Hyper Beam
17. Protect
19. Giga Drain
20. Safeguard
21. Frustration
26. Earthquake
27. Return
28. Dig
30. Shadow Ball
31. Brick Break
32. Double Team
36. Sludge Bomb
37. Sandstorm
39. Rock Tomb
43. Secret Power
44. Rest
48. Skill Swap
52. Focus Blast
56. Fling
58. Endure
60. Drain Punch
61. Will-o-Wisp
63. Embargo
66. Payback
67. Recycle
68. Giga Impact
77. Psych Up
79. Dark Pulse
80. Rock Slide
82. Sleep Talk
84. Poison Jab
85. Dream Eater
86. Grass Knot (if it gets Power Whip it gets this)
87. Swagger
90. Substitute
HM04. Strength
HM06. Rock Smash
HM08. Rock Climb

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

*NEW*
Does this get Hypnosis and associated moves?
-Yes
-No
Well, post away. I expect this one thread to be open for a while.

[tennisace]

1st post.

Ok. Close Combat is Overpowered. Period. Cross Chop should be the main move, but it can also get Superpower and Hammer Arm. Dynamic Punch is ok, but not many people will use it without No Guard.

Ice Punch should be all it gets out of the three.

No recovery out outside of Rest.

No W-O-W.

For the rest of it, Where the hell did Bone Rush come from? Anyways, no Endure as a Level Up. Power Whip should stay on there, and i guess Energy Ball for the LOL Specs set or Nasty Plot Mixed. Rock Tomb is just meh anyways, but leave it as a tm, not Level Up. Also, Hyper Voice doesn't fit and if this doesn't get Hypnosis, why Dream Eater? get rid of Shadow ball as a level up too. Finally, Ancient Power as an evolution method sounds fine.

[DCJ713]

This looks pretty good, glad that this is going well. As for the questions:

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

(All of the others don't fit.)

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

(Fire Punch makes no sense, Ice Punch is most fitting)

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

IMO, omit the following: Endure, Bide, Bone Rush

[Jenigmat]

My vote for main Fighting STAB is Cross Chop. I can see the thing actually doing it, for one, and it isn't too powerful attack. High crit rate can compensate partially for low base power, but I don't want too high a base power. Stone Edge is just about never overpowered, so I'm playing it safe and weakening it compared to other options with this thing.

For the elemental punches, this is an interesting question. It's just about the same as Dusknoir using them, but slightly better. I don't personally care about declining Dusknoir usage, so that's not an issue. On the other hand, I want this to get Moonlight, and I don't want the good movepool to be too much to handle. I'll compromise by giving voting to give this Fire Punch and Ice Punch, so people will shut up about Garchomp, while saying no to ThunderPunch, because then Gyarados can have fun.

I vote Moonlight, because I personally think it won't be overpowered, because plenty of things will still beat it with Moonlight. His 90 Base health isn't too much, and with Gliscor, Hippo, and Skarmory as an example it won't be broken.

I want this thing to retain a weaker physical defense, and so vote No Will-o-Wisp.

[Viashino_wizard]

I really don't see why this should get Hyper Voice, it just doesn't make sense to me. I think Morning Sun makes more sense for a mummy because of the heavy Sun theme of Egyptian mythology.

Also, I'm not that fond of giving it Hypnosis.

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power
-Revenge

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Ice Punch
-Fire Punch
-Thunderpunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes (Morning Sun/Moonlight)

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-No

Does this get access to Shadow Sneak and Mach Punch?
-Yes

Does it get Power Whip and Grass Knot?
-Yes

Does this get Rapid Spin?
-No

[jokey665]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

[DougJustDoug**]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

This is a fighting pokemon and having strong fighting moves is not a problem. Superpower doesn't seem to fit. Hammer Arm and Cross Chop fit very nicely with the art concept. The punches give it versatility and at 75 BP, they are not overpowered. I personally wish Recover was an option, but Moonlight with Airlock is a neat combo. WoW just doesn't seem to fit for this poke. Although I understand other arguments for it.

[Gothic Togekiss]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

What happened to Shadow Sneak? Also can we choose more than one Fighting Stab move and/or Elemental punch?

Edit: I like to add Sky Uppercut and/or Force Palm

[Viashino_wizard]

I thought we were going to make it so that both physical priority STAB's were available but not on the same set.

Doug, what exactly are you voting?

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace0227

For the rest of it, Where the hell did Bone Rush come from? Anyways, no Endure on this. Power Whip should stay on there, and i guess Energy Ball for the LOL Specs set or Nasty Plot Mixed. Rock Tomb is just meh anyways.

Lucario and the fact that is a mummy with bones in it tomb.

Anyways, I favor Moonlight, and disagree with Will-o-Wisp. I really like Hammer Arm as the STAB move, but cannot decide what to do with the Punches.

Reasoning:
The core of Dusknoir's sets is Pain Split+Will-o-Wisp. Pain Split is different from Moonlight in that it has double the PP, never misses, and deals damage to the opponent. Will-o-Wisp doesn't fit with the kind of vengeful mummy we are going with and I would like to have another difference between this and Dusknoir besides just Pain Split.

Hammer Arm is just awesome. I really don't seem the mummy Chopping stuff or using Close Combat. Dynamic Punch has really meh accuracy and Super Power defeats the point of Bulk Up.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Fat Viashino_wizard

I really don't see why this should get Hyper Voice, it just doesn't make sense to me. I think Morning Sun makes more sense for a mummy because of the heavy Sun theme of Egyptian mythology.

The Sun theme of mummies does not allow for a lot of the vengeful moves we added. In Egyptian mythology, mummies never come back to life. That is a Western concept. So the Sun God thing doesn't really apply to this particular Mummy.

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

What happened to Shadow Sneak? Also can we choose more than one Fighting Stab move and/or Elemental punch?

Originally Posted by Fat Viashino_wizard

I thought we were going to make it so that both physical priority STAB's were available but not on the same set.

Another differentiator from Dusknoir mainly. Although I am not really opposed to adding back in if you guys really want it.

[Dane]

For Level Move 53, I like Hammer Arm. Dynamic Punch is also good, but I don't like the others.

I'd also like to chime in and say I don't think he should have a sleep inducing move. Being able to shrug off hits and then sleep the enemy seems a little too good. Unless someone has a good reason for it's inclusion, I don't like it. On my original movelist, I had Nightmare with no sleep inducing move because 1) it fit thematically and 2) it was a way to punish sleep talkers like Heracross that think they'll be okay.

As for Moonlight / Recover / Morning Sun / Whatever, I don't care. Either way it's inferior to Rest when using Shed Skin, so it doesn't matter to me.

As for Elemental Punches, no Fire Punch. In fact, no physical fire moves at all. Physical fire means his body would have fire in contact with it, thus he should burn, not the enemy. Thunder Punch and Ice Punch I don't care about one way or the other.

Will-o-wisp has been argued so much already, I don't feel like arguing about it more. I don't like it, but honestly I don't see if being used too often if it does get included. My vote goes to no for it though, since this is supposed to be a bulky offensive Pokemon, is it not?


What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No
-Don't Care

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I feel I should mention that Hammer Arm and Superpower are Fighting moves that are specifically made for non-Fighting-type Pokémon. You'll notice that no Fighting-type learns either move. As such, I don't feel that either should be an option.

DynamicPunch.

Ice Punch and ThunderPunch.

No recovery move other than Rest.

Will-O-Wisp is A-O-K. All Ghosts should have access to it.

That level-up list could be trimmed down a lot. Moves that I think should definitely be ditched are Glare, Hyper Voice, Power Whip, and Icy Wind. If Move Tutors are introduced in a later 4th gen game and one teaches Icy Wind, then this Pokémon should learn it, but not until then.

[Stathakis]

I love the contributions that the first poster made...

anyways, no other recovery I just don't really get that. rest on a mummy fits perfectly.. hammer arm is the most realistic fighting stab move imo, with dynamic punch after it.

no WoW just because we don't want this to outclass dusknoir. every ghost gets will-o-wisp, but still...

I can see the elemental punches going on it.

[Mario With Lasers]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Hammer Arm

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Ice Punch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-No

Does this get Hypnosis and associated moves?
-No; I don't see any problem with lol Nightmare, though.


Out of curiosity, why is Icy Wind on the list? I thought people had decided not to have it?

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

I feel I should mention that Hammer Arm and Superpower are Fighting moves that are specifically made for non-Fighting-type Pokémon. You'll notice that no Fighting-type learns either move. As such, I don't feel that either should be an option.

What? That doesn't sound right to me. Can you explain where you got this from?

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

I feel I should mention that Hammer Arm and Superpower are Fighting moves that are specifically made for non-Fighting-type Pokémon. You'll notice that no Fighting-type learns either move. As such, I don't feel that either should be an option.

That level-up list could be trimmed down a lot. Moves that I think should definitely be ditched are Glare, Hyper Voice, Power Whip, and Icy Wind. If Move Tutors are introduced in a later 4th gen game and one teaches Icy Wind, then this Pokémon should learn it, but not until then.

I haven't actually seen that. I understand how this applies to Super Power, but really fail to see the logic behind not give Hariyama Hammer Arm. Anyways, they are all viable options since all exclusive moves will eventually be nonexclusive.

Glare will not leave because it hearkens to the Gibdo roots this has. Hyper Voice is more because I remember the mummy from The Mummy yelling a lot. I can understand the opposite to Power Whip and Icy Wind. I really like Power Whip, but I see all the reasons not to give it the move. Icy Wind is really just there because a lot of people mentioned it.

Originally Posted by Fat Mario with Lasers

Out of curiosity, why is Icy Wind on the list? I thought people had decided not to have it?

Because people found counters not hurt by it.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Stathakis

I love the contributions that the first poster made...

You do realize i edited it? I just wanted to be first.

[Adamant_Torterra]

Hammer Arm because it's awesome any nothing learns it, All three punches, because they fit flavor wise, no Moonlight, because we need to (kinda) nerf it somehow, and no Will-o-Wisp, because it has to do with swamp gas, which makes no sense with something that live in Egypt.

[Dane]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

I can understand the opposite to Power Whip and Icy Wind. I really like Power Whip, but I see all the reasons not to give it the move.

I see no reason not to give it Power Whip outside of people wanting to send Swampert into it. Power Whip makes perfect sense thematically, and gives him a slightly more varied moveset. Options are always good, especially when they aren't overpowered. This makes even more sense if an Elemental Punch or more is removed, since it fills in a gap in his varied-type attack slots.

[zxn666]

Main Fighting STAB: Cross chop
Close Combat=death on a defensive pokemon since it lowers defenses, and superpower is too tempermental and it lowers defense as well.

Elemental Punch: All three
Lol I'm so gonna get flamed, but if the Elemental Punch move tutor does come back, it would only make sense that it can get all three. I don't see anything other than ice punch getting any use though.

Recovery Move: Moonlight
Two ways of healing is good on this pokemon. Restalk is promoted by shed skin, and air lock screams moonlight. Morning sun would work too, since it's a mummy of the sun god or something...

Will-o-wisp?: Yes
Honestly throwing out statuses is not the best way to hurt things. Even if it gets WoW, I don't see it getting any more use, or being more broken. Who cares about Dusknoir anyways?

[nihilist]

made a post later

[Pulse]

Any reason Force Palm isn't being considered as a main fighting move? This is a bulkier-than-usual Pokémon, right? It shouldn't be stuck with a low PP move. It would have my vote.

[chip_the_fox]

no close combat
nomoonlight
noWoW
noelemental punches
grass knot and power whip
superpower main fighting STAB

[Pratty]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Only move on here other then Super Power that wouldn't make it friggin' broken, and even that would be annoyingly so.

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Fire punch makes no sense, since we said Mummies burned with the Dry Skin thing. Fire Punch would do the same. Fine otherwise.

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Air Lock has no use if we don't get it Moonlight, and Rest will be used with Shed Skin anyway due to Sandstorm, so it won't be overpowering.

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

See: Burning arguement above. I could see the Wisp part working, but the fact it's fiery and all kinda makes me not like it.

[Instinctive]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
ThunderPunch
-Ice Punch
-
Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No



Fire doesn't make a lot of thematic sense, but cold deathly mummies do. And I can see TPunch also. Its slow, it hits really hard with no finesse, HAMMER ARM=perfect.

No WoW. I could care less about Dusknoir, but I don't see WoW fitting.

I think we should give it Mach Punch and Shadow Sneak, but not let them be available on one set. Again, we aren't Creating-a Poke but Protect Dusknoir, we are Creating-a Poke...