Non-OU Pokemon?

Aki · Mar 21st, 2008, 6:25:05 PM

Would we be looking at a UU/NU/BL/Uber CAP project? Ever?

If we were, what would we be wanting to balance those metagames? what is unbalancing about those metagames?

Time Mage · Mar 21st, 2008, 6:40:46 PM

Not in the near future. The goal should be OU, but then maybe the pokémon falls into one of the other categories after being tested.

tennisace · Mar 21st, 2008, 6:40:59 PM

maybe, but probably not. the point of this is to balance the current metagame. since most people play ou, and that is the most unbalanced, pokemon are being made for ou. thats not to say something we make could turn uu, or even nu. bl isn't a real tier btw, the difference between bl and ou is usage.

Edit: beaten...

latinoheat · Mar 21st, 2008, 6:41:18 PM

i don't like this idea that all we are meant to be making is OU, because it ends with people trying to give the pokemon the best moves possible, just to make sure it is. It happened with scylant which has alot of moves that don't really fit flavor-wise, it nearly happened with the mummy as well.

Make the pokemon, give it moves that it should get, but don't go out of your way to make it top tier OU. Thats why i think the mummy creation has been much more successful then scylant.

With the mummy there was a basic idea and then people went with the moves that actually fit, instead of just overloaded it with every move possible to make sure it fit into top tier OU. People let it fit into place and it looks like its going to sit comfortably on the BL/Low tier OU level.

Where as scylant got a ton of moves that it really didn't need because people were worried it wouldn't be a top tier OU. IMO Things like earth power,fire fang and superpower didn'y really fit but people added them because their has been this notion that it had to be top tier OU. if you took those 3 moves away and whatever else didn't really fit scylant it would have still fallen into place in OU. scylant's movepool,abilty and speed stat scream of fanboys wanting to give the thing every possible advantage it could get and getting it as close to broken as possible without being uber.

Aki · Mar 21st, 2008, 6:47:53 PM

To really balance the OU metagame imho would be to add a Physical Blissey (Ballsey) and some more special attackers (Along the line of Syclant), and maybe even a mixed wall.

tennisace · Mar 21st, 2008, 7:01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Aki

To really balance the OU metagame imho would be to add a Physical Blissey (Ballsey) and some more special attackers (Along the line of Syclant), and maybe even a mixed wall.

do you want skarmbliss all over again with a worse name? i thought not. and for mixed walls you have cressy, spiritomb, and bronzong.

latinoheat · Mar 21st, 2008, 7:06:12 PM

im not one of those people that bitches about blissey and thinks its broken, i am actually glad its there because it stops special attackers taking voer the metagame, but i would like to see more special walls that give you a reason to use them over blissey.

with physical walls the distinction is there, each one in OU gives you a good reason to use them over any other.

If you want really good fighting coverage gliscor is better then skarmory
If you need a spiker skarmory is their
If you want sandstream better tyranitar coverage hippo is better

With blissey their is really no need to use anything else for a special wall,shit like snorlax give me no good reason to use them as a special wall over blissey.

etc

Aki · Mar 21st, 2008, 7:48:57 PM

Since when did i make a thread? I was sure i posted in the sticky... ._.

***DougJustDoug***** · Mar 21st, 2008, 7:50:42 PM

How could any of you possibly think this was "Simple question, simple answer" material? All of you that have posted before this should know better.

Anyway, I think this overlaps a lot with the "What is the CAP Project" Workshop, but it's probably a little more specific than we need there. I'm interested in hearing the community opinion on this topic, so I've moved it to a separate thread.

Aki · Mar 21st, 2008, 7:51:42 PM

Oh. I thought this was Simple Question, simple answer because i was expecting a Yes, no, or sometime in the future answer ._.

EDIT: In keeping with new thread status; i've updated the OP with another question

Luck · Mar 22nd, 2008, 2:57:34 AM

The process is not perfect,If we shoot for UU poke and turn into Nu .It is waste of time and effort.We can not guarantee if a poke will be UU or OU.We shoot to make an Ou poke but the metagame will choose what happens to a poke.

We try make an OU and becomes UU that is fine
We try make an OU and becomes BL it is fine
We try make an OU and becomes Uber it is fine

We try make an UU and becomes NU we wasted weeks maybe months of our time making it and probably waste weeks and months trying to fixing it.We honestly don't know if poke will be OU or not but shooting higher gives it a better chance of having some use.We can't tell what will really happen look at Alakazam on paper it looks like a monster but in reality it is not very good in this metagame.Skarmory has average stats but it is common poke.We shoot for main ou game and if it is stronger or weaker it has a place.

Finally why create a pokemon that will not get used ?We already several pokes barely gets used does make any sense to add more.95% percent of the people say i wish UU poke A had this move so i could use it in OU .Nintendo does fine job of putting pokes that we wish where in Ou but screwed them.We don't need to help them

Sunday · Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:30:53 AM

The main problem is that not enough people play UU for it to be worth our while. Personally I am farmilier with UU, but we come into a whole lot of problems during almost every phaze of the creation process. The mod would have to have an intimate knowledge of the UU metagame in order to be able to curb the project to ensure it remains in UU. Then when we come to the testing phaze we would be incredibly short of test subjects. It's hard enough to find a UU match in the official server let along in Dougs! (I've tried >.> )

eric the espeon · Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:36:48 AM

How about we make any pre-evos competive in the UU metagame?
Syclar wants to see some use!
and LS i want to play, but i have no idea how. I think i would learn if there was a CAP pokemon in UU though.

Aki · Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:28:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sunday

The main problem is that not enough people play UU for it to be worth our while. Personally I am farmilier with UU, but we come into a whole lot of problems during almost every phaze of the creation process. The mod would have to have an intimate knowledge of the UU metagame in order to be able to curb the project to ensure it remains in UU. Then when we come to the testing phaze we would be incredibly short of test subjects. It's hard enough to find a UU match in the official server let along in Dougs! (I've tried >.> )

Psh, no-one for UU? I"m always up for a game of UU/BL.

Sunday · Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:35:53 AM

Well get on Shoddy then Aki! >.>

Anyway I just realised in my previous post I wasted my 3000th post, so happy Sunday's 3000th CaP Project!

Anyway UU just won't have as much interest as OU and thus can't really be concidered until this is well established.

Aki · Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:39:27 AM

Fine then, i will get on shoddy with my BL team and cream your ass.

tennisace · Mar 22nd, 2008, 11:16:49 AM

^^That had no innuendo what-so-ever... Anyways i agree that there just aren't enough people who want to do a UU pokemon. HOWEVER if someone is willing to do one on the side with a separate set of polls and a separate mini-mod, i'd support it, and i think Sunday would be willing to do it.

***Mekkah***** · Mar 22nd, 2008, 12:42:38 PM

One thing at a time, guys. There's bigger fish to fry than complaining about leaving the UU metagame behind. The Pokemon made by this project alter OU in a pretty big fashion, so you would have to create and test and update a new tier list altogether before being able to say what UU is. And from THERE you have to create a Pokemon for UU without it being too overpowered...and since everyone will be using and testing it for UU, it will be a very common Pokemon in these matches nonetheless.

eric the espeon · Mar 22nd, 2008, 1:59:35 PM

Mekkah: maybe what you say is right once we have made 10 or so pokemon, but the 1-2 we have done so far i doubt will have changed the UU tier much if at all.

Anyway what does everyone think about makeing Syclar and any future C-A-P NFE's viable in UU?
DJD if we did make it so it would work there would you be willing to program it?

Mar 21st, 2008, 6:25:05 PM	#1
Aki Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 670 In the ICBB Submarine with Blu, Darkrai6875, forbidden and Pokeguy for flaming.	Non-OU Pokemon? Would we be looking at a UU/NU/BL/Uber CAP project? Ever? If we were, what would we be wanting to balance those metagames? what is unbalancing about those metagames? __________________ FC: 0774 3193 9898, What I'm listening to: Mah people Fuck the system Chop Suey Soldier Side Buy my pokes CAP Doug's CAP Server Info Due to various Rants and raves about me and my highly opinionated ass, i encourage you to PM me about my Behavior in the CAP, and what i've done wrong. Take all arguments up with me in the PM box. Last edited by Aki; Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:04:29 PM.

Mar 21st, 2008, 6:40:46 PM	#2
Time Mage Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 935 Granada, Spain	Not in the near future. The goal should be OU, but then maybe the pokémon falls into one of the other categories after being tested. __________________ D/P FC: 2749 8421 3675

Mar 21st, 2008, 6:40:59 PM	#3
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,237	maybe, but probably not. the point of this is to balance the current metagame. since most people play ou, and that is the most unbalanced, pokemon are being made for ou. thats not to say something we make could turn uu, or even nu. bl isn't a real tier btw, the difference between bl and ou is usage. Edit: beaten... __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Mar 21st, 2008, 6:41:18 PM	#4
latinoheat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,921	i don't like this idea that all we are meant to be making is OU, because it ends with people trying to give the pokemon the best moves possible, just to make sure it is. It happened with scylant which has alot of moves that don't really fit flavor-wise, it nearly happened with the mummy as well. Make the pokemon, give it moves that it should get, but don't go out of your way to make it top tier OU. Thats why i think the mummy creation has been much more successful then scylant. With the mummy there was a basic idea and then people went with the moves that actually fit, instead of just overloaded it with every move possible to make sure it fit into top tier OU. People let it fit into place and it looks like its going to sit comfortably on the BL/Low tier OU level. Where as scylant got a ton of moves that it really didn't need because people were worried it wouldn't be a top tier OU. IMO Things like earth power,fire fang and superpower didn'y really fit but people added them because their has been this notion that it had to be top tier OU. if you took those 3 moves away and whatever else didn't really fit scylant it would have still fallen into place in OU. scylant's movepool,abilty and speed stat scream of fanboys wanting to give the thing every possible advantage it could get and getting it as close to broken as possible without being uber. Last edited by latinoheat; Mar 21st, 2008 at 6:49:42 PM.

Mar 21st, 2008, 6:47:53 PM	#5
Aki Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 670 In the ICBB Submarine with Blu, Darkrai6875, forbidden and Pokeguy for flaming.	To really balance the OU metagame imho would be to add a Physical Blissey (Ballsey) and some more special attackers (Along the line of Syclant), and maybe even a mixed wall. __________________ FC: 0774 3193 9898, What I'm listening to: Mah people Fuck the system Chop Suey Soldier Side Buy my pokes CAP Doug's CAP Server Info Due to various Rants and raves about me and my highly opinionated ass, i encourage you to PM me about my Behavior in the CAP, and what i've done wrong. Take all arguments up with me in the PM box.

Mar 21st, 2008, 7:06:12 PM	#7
latinoheat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,921	im not one of those people that bitches about blissey and thinks its broken, i am actually glad its there because it stops special attackers taking voer the metagame, but i would like to see more special walls that give you a reason to use them over blissey. with physical walls the distinction is there, each one in OU gives you a good reason to use them over any other. If you want really good fighting coverage gliscor is better then skarmory If you need a spiker skarmory is their If you want sandstream better tyranitar coverage hippo is better With blissey their is really no need to use anything else for a special wall,shit like snorlax give me no good reason to use them as a special wall over blissey. etc

Mar 21st, 2008, 7:48:57 PM	#8
Aki Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 670 In the ICBB Submarine with Blu, Darkrai6875, forbidden and Pokeguy for flaming.	Since when did i make a thread? I was sure i posted in the sticky... ._. __________________ FC: 0774 3193 9898, What I'm listening to: Mah people Fuck the system Chop Suey Soldier Side Buy my pokes CAP Doug's CAP Server Info Due to various Rants and raves about me and my highly opinionated ass, i encourage you to PM me about my Behavior in the CAP, and what i've done wrong. Take all arguments up with me in the PM box.

Mar 21st, 2008, 7:50:42 PM	#9
*DougJustDoug* Knows the great enthusiasms Administrator** Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,901 Houston, TX	How could any of you possibly think this was "Simple question, simple answer" material? All of you that have posted before this should know better. Anyway, I think this overlaps a lot with the "What is the CAP Project" Workshop, but it's probably a little more specific than we need there. I'm interested in hearing the community opinion on this topic, so I've moved it to a separate thread. __________________ My Art Thread: ArtJustArt - The Art of DougJustDoug

Mar 21st, 2008, 7:51:42 PM	#10
Aki Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 670 In the ICBB Submarine with Blu, Darkrai6875, forbidden and Pokeguy for flaming.	Oh. I thought this was Simple Question, simple answer because i was expecting a Yes, no, or sometime in the future answer ._. EDIT: In keeping with new thread status; i've updated the OP with another question __________________ FC: 0774 3193 9898, What I'm listening to: Mah people Fuck the system Chop Suey Soldier Side Buy my pokes CAP Doug's CAP Server Info Due to various Rants and raves about me and my highly opinionated ass, i encourage you to PM me about my Behavior in the CAP, and what i've done wrong. Take all arguments up with me in the PM box. Last edited by Aki; Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:03:52 PM.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 2:57:34 AM	#11
Luck Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 518	The process is not perfect,If we shoot for UU poke and turn into Nu .It is waste of time and effort.We can not guarantee if a poke will be UU or OU.We shoot to make an Ou poke but the metagame will choose what happens to a poke. We try make an OU and becomes UU that is fine We try make an OU and becomes BL it is fine We try make an OU and becomes Uber it is fine We try make an UU and becomes NU we wasted weeks maybe months of our time making it and probably waste weeks and months trying to fixing it.We honestly don't know if poke will be OU or not but shooting higher gives it a better chance of having some use.We can't tell what will really happen look at Alakazam on paper it looks like a monster but in reality it is not very good in this metagame.Skarmory has average stats but it is common poke.We shoot for main ou game and if it is stronger or weaker it has a place. Finally why create a pokemon that will not get used ?We already several pokes barely gets used does make any sense to add more.95% percent of the people say i wish UU poke A had this move so i could use it in OU .Nintendo does fine job of putting pokes that we wish where in Ou but screwed them.We don't need to help them __________________ A counter must be able to both switch into the pokémon it's supposed to counter, with little to no risk to itself, and also pose an immediate threat to said pokémon.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:30:53 AM	#12
Sunday Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,193 Australia	The main problem is that not enough people play UU for it to be worth our while. Personally I am farmilier with UU, but we come into a whole lot of problems during almost every phaze of the creation process. The mod would have to have an intimate knowledge of the UU metagame in order to be able to curb the project to ensure it remains in UU. Then when we come to the testing phaze we would be incredibly short of test subjects. It's hard enough to find a UU match in the official server let along in Dougs! (I've tried >.> ) __________________

Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:36:48 AM	#13
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	How about we make any pre-evos competive in the UU metagame? Syclar wants to see some use! and LS i want to play, but i have no idea how. I think i would learn if there was a CAP pokemon in UU though. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted. Last edited by eric the espeon; Mar 22nd, 2008 at 7:48:07 AM.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:35:53 AM	#15
Sunday Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,193 Australia	Well get on Shoddy then Aki! >.> Anyway I just realised in my previous post I wasted my 3000th post, so happy Sunday's 3000th CaP Project! Anyway UU just won't have as much interest as OU and thus can't really be concidered until this is well established. __________________

Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:39:27 AM	#16
Aki Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 670 In the ICBB Submarine with Blu, Darkrai6875, forbidden and Pokeguy for flaming.	Fine then, i will get on shoddy with my BL team and cream your ass. __________________ FC: 0774 3193 9898, What I'm listening to: Mah people Fuck the system Chop Suey Soldier Side Buy my pokes CAP Doug's CAP Server Info Due to various Rants and raves about me and my highly opinionated ass, i encourage you to PM me about my Behavior in the CAP, and what i've done wrong. Take all arguments up with me in the PM box.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 11:16:49 AM	#17
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,237	^^That had no innuendo what-so-ever... Anyways i agree that there just aren't enough people who want to do a UU pokemon. HOWEVER if someone is willing to do one on the side with a separate set of polls and a separate mini-mod, i'd support it, and i think Sunday would be willing to do it. __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Mar 22nd, 2008, 12:42:38 PM	#18
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	One thing at a time, guys. There's bigger fish to fry than complaining about leaving the UU metagame behind. The Pokemon made by this project alter OU in a pretty big fashion, so you would have to create and test and update a new tier list altogether before being able to say what UU is. And from THERE you have to create a Pokemon for UU without it being too overpowered...and since everyone will be using and testing it for UU, it will be a very common Pokemon in these matches nonetheless. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

Mar 22nd, 2008, 1:59:35 PM	#19
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Mekkah: maybe what you say is right once we have made 10 or so pokemon, but the 1-2 we have done so far i doubt will have changed the UU tier much if at all. Anyway what does everyone think about makeing Syclar and any future C-A-P NFE's viable in UU? DJD if we did make it so it would work there would you be willing to program it? __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.