A short guide on how to create a Pokemon's movepool

X-Act · May 1st, 2008, 7:28:03 AM

Hereunder is a little guide on how to create a movepool for a new Pokemon. Please help to improve it as I don't claim to be an expert on this subject.

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Every Pokemon movepool consists of three parts:

1) Level-up list
2) TM list
3) Egg move list

I am not going to consider move tutor and special events moves here. I'm also going to assume that the movepool being created is for a final stage Pokemon.

It is actually better to start from the TM list first, as this can only be created from a choice of 100 moves.

The TM move list

Simply choose moves from the following 100, remembering that the bold ones must be almost always chosen:

Code:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day (except most Water and Ice Pokemon)
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance (except most Grass and Fire Pokemon)
TM19 - Giga Drain
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract (except genderless Pokemon)
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Steel Wing
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM50 - Overheat
TM51 - Roost
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM64 - Explosion
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate (except genderless Pokemon)
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM81 - X-scissor
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM02 - Fly
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall
HM08 - Rock Climb

A few comments:

1) Usually, TM moves that are of the same type as the Pokemon are learned by that Pokemon, but there are exceptions.
2) Water Pokemon tend to learn all Ice moves.
3) Fire and Grass Pokemon don't learn any Ice moves (unless they're also part-Ice or part-Water).
4) Ice and Grass Pokemon don't learn any Fire moves (unless they're also part-Fire).

The Level-up list

A Level-up list usually contains between 13 and 16 different moves. It must never contain more than 16 different moves.

Up to three of these moves can be Heart Scale moves.

If the Pokemon for which the movepool is being created has pre-evolution Pokemon, like Arcanine or Ampharos, one of the following two things happen:

1) Up to three Level 1 moves may be repeated in further levels. These moves are learned by its pre-evolution Pokemon as well. For example, Ampharos learns Growl, Thundershock and Thunder Wave at Level 1, and learns them again at Level 5, 10 and 14 respectively.

2) They have a few Level 1 moves, and then an extremely short or non-existent movepool. For example, Arcanine only learns one move at Level 39 (Extremespeed), and the other moves it learns by Level-up are all Level 1 or Heart Scale moves. In this case, the Pokemon would use its pre-evolutions' movepool.

From the 13 to 16 different moves that you're going to write (including the Heart Scale moves), make sure that only one, two, or three of them are competitive moves worth using that are not already learned by the TM list.

The move power of moves tends to increase as the Pokemon levels up.

The Egg moves list

A Pokemon may have as little as 4 egg moves and as much as 12. Usually this number is between 8 and 10.

Pokemon that are genderless or that do not breed do not have any egg moves.

Make sure that, from your egg move list, you don't have more than four that are competitive moves worth using.

Also, the number of viable competitive moves from the Level-up list and the egg moves list (not repeated in the TM list) combined must be between two and six.

Example Movepools

Example 1: Gengar

Level-Up:

Code:

1. Hypnosis
1. Lick
1. Spite
5. Spite
8. Mean Look
12. Curse
15. Night Shade
19. Confuse Ray
22. Sucker Punch
25. Shadow Punch
28. Payback
33. Shadow Ball
39. Dream Eater
44. Dark Pulse
50. Destiny Bond
55. Nightmare

Comment: It has 15 different moves. Only Hypnosis, and to a lesser extent, Mean Look are viable on Gengar. Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse are redundant since they are also TMs.

TMs:

Code:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM19 - Giga Drain
TM21 - Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM64 - Explosion
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash

Comment: The reason why Gengar is said to have a "huge movepool" is clearly its TM list.

Egg moves:

Code:

Psywave
Perish Song
Haze
Astonish
Will-o-wisp
Grudge
Explosion
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Thunderpunch

Comment: Practically none of these 10 moves are viable on Gengar, except those that are TMs.

Example 2: Hippowdon

Level-up:

Code:

H. Ice Fang
H. Fire Fang
H. Thunder Fang
1. Tackle
1. Sand-attack
1. Bite
1. Yawn
7. Bite
13. Yawn
19. Take Down
25. Sand Tomb
31. Crunch
40. Earthquake
50. Double-edge
60. Fissure

Comment: It has 13 different moves. Even though the three Heart Scale moves are somewhat viable, they are not exactly gamebreaking. And neither are Yawn and Crunch.

TM list:

Code:

TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM58 - Endure
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash

Comment: Rather limited.

Egg move list:

Code:

Stockpile
Swallow
Spit Up
Curse
Slack Off
Body Slam
Sand Tomb

Comment: Slack Off and Curse stand out. The others 5 moves don't.

Example 3: Heracross

Level-up:

Code:

H. Night Slash
1. Tackle
1. Leer
1. Horn Attack
1. Endure
7. Fury Attack
13. Aerial Ace
19. Brick Break
25. Counter
31. Take Down
37. Close Combat
43. Reversal
49. Feint
55. Megahorn

Comment: Close Combat and Megahorn are the two eye-catchers out of the above 14 moves.

TMs:

Code:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash

Comment: Has all the good physical moves. In particular, the addition of Earthquake and Stone Edge to Heracross' level-up list, and Swords Dance, is what makes Heracross such a dangerous Pokemon.

Egg moves:

Code:

Harden
Bide
Flail
False Swipe
Revenge
Pursuit
Double-edge

Comment: Of the above 7 egg moves, only Pursuit is remotely viable. Interestingly, Heracross does not learn False Swipe via TM but learns it via egg moves. This happens only very rarely. However, if a Pokemon learns a level-up move that is also a TM, it must be listed among the TM list as well.

eric the espeon · May 1st, 2008, 7:46:47 AM

Very nice, I am glad you agree with the separating into 3 thing.

It describes very well how to make a single movepool, the one problem is is that is does not tell us about how we pick the right movepool or vote on moves, I have some ideas about how this could be done and will post them soon.

Edit: also a few of the Bold TMs are not on all Pokemon, e.g. Attract, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact.

eric the espeon · May 1st, 2008, 7:56:37 AM

This is a WIP

1. What TM/HMs it gets.
Let the TL (or someone/several people appointed by the TL) write up a proposed list of what TM/HMs it should get, let people comment on it for a day or so, and have the TL (or appointed person/people) change the TM/HM learn list according to peoples suggestions (have a look in the currant movepool thread to see how I have done it).

The most disputed moves are polled by Bold text voting in the same way the Punches and W-o-W were on Revenankh, with each person having a Yes or No vote for each move.

2. What Lv. up moves it gets.
People discuss the possible competitive moves, the TL draws up a list of the most popular 10, Bold text vote (with each person being allowed 3 YES votes and 2 NO votes) to find the most popular 2-4, flavour moves will also be discussed, they will then be organized, by the TL or someone they select (into a Lv. up learn list).

3. Egg Moves
People discuss possible moves (competitive and non-competitive), the TL draws up a list (of about 20) of those with support and they are all voted on by bold text voting (so you say yes or no for each move).

One thing I am adamant about is that the flavour must be kept as an important part of the discussions, and the moves must fit with the art.

X-Act · May 1st, 2008, 8:02:02 AM

Yeah, this guide is not about how to choose the moves at all. It's just about how to create a movepool correctly.

***Mekkah***** · May 1st, 2008, 9:10:58 AM

Quote:

Attract, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact.

iirc:
Attract is only unavailable on genderless Pokemon.
Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are on all fully evolved Pokemon.

***DougJustDoug***** · May 1st, 2008, 10:43:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

This is a WIP

1. What TM/HMs it gets.
Let the TL (or someone/several people appointed by the TL) write up a proposed list of what TM/HMs it should get, let people comment on it for a day or so, and have the TL (or appointed person/people) change the TM/HM learn list according to peoples suggestions (have a look in the currant movepool thread to see how I have done it).

The most disputed moves are polled by Bold text voting in the same way the Punches and W-o-W were on Revenankh, with each person having a Yes or No vote for each move.

2. What Lv. up moves it gets.
People discuss the possible competitive moves, the TL draws up a list of the most popular 10, Bold text vote (with each person being allowed 3 YES votes and 2 NO votes) to find the most popular 2-4, flavour moves will also be discussed, they will then be organized, by the TL or someone they select (into a Lv. up learn list).

3. Egg Moves
People discuss possible moves (competitive and non-competitive), the TL draws up a list (of about 20) of those with support and they are all voted on by bold text voting (so you say yes or no for each move).

One thing I am adamant about is that the flavour must be kept as an important part of the discussions, and the moves must fit with the art.

The movepool voting process is currently being discussed in the process workshop thread. This guide, and where it fits in the process, was actually started in that discussion. If you would like to comment on that process, do so in that thread.

Dane · May 1st, 2008, 11:23:52 AM

Only thing I saw on first glance that I didn't like was using Arcanine as an example for how poor the level-up movepool should be. Arcanine evolves via Elemental Stone, and nearly every (if not every) Pokemon who evolves this way generally loses the ability to learn level up moves naturally.

We shouldn't really try to reflect that in CaP, in my opinion. Work on it's usable movepool, and the rest (if it learns those moves as a lower stage only or not) can be determined after the necessary information is done.

Look at Infernape on Shoddy. Nasty Plot is on it's movepool, but it only learns that as Chimchar. So basically, we should just aim for the usable moves, not just "that stage's learnable moves".

***DougJustDoug***** · May 1st, 2008, 1:38:33 PM

This guide will not be used to determine the "usable" moves for the pokemon. It will be used to determine how all the usable moves and un-usable moves will be combined into a complete movepool.

I made the following suggestion in the process thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

The current movepool thread is a total mess. The Movepool section of the project needs a total process revamp. I'm glad Time Mage brought this up.

Based on the suggestions in the past few posts, I'd like to propose the following process for determining the movepool:

Movepool discussion and voting will be divided into three phases
Competitive Attack Moves
Competitive Defense and Support Moves
Complete Movepool
The TL posts an initial Attack movepool in the OP of a discussion thread. People post regarding necessary additions and removals. No full moveset posts are allowed.

At the conclusion of the Attack discussion, the TL will open an Attack voting poll to vote on controversial changes to the Attack movepool.

At the same time the Attack voting thread is opened, the Defense and Support movepool discussion thread will be opened.

At the conclusion of the Defense and Support movepool discussion, the TL opens a Defense and Support voting poll to vote on controversial changes to the Defense and Support movepool.

Based on participation in the previous movepool threads, the TL will select several members to present a complete movepool submission. Since all the competitive moves will have been decided, the movepool submissions will merely add "flavor" moves to round out the movepool.

A guide should be written to describe the characteristics of an appropriate movepool. X-Act's guide is an excellent start. If anyone attempts to include a competitive move, not agreed in the previous polls, it will be the TL's responsibility to see that the submitter removes them from the full movepool submission.

The movepool submissions will be voted on by the community. No alterations, edits, or conditional votes will be accepted. By the time the final movepool is polled, all competitive aspects should have been decided. Therefore, the final movepool is really a vote of individual preference on what best fits the flavor of the pokemon.

This guide will be used by submitters in the final phase of the Movepool Voting process (bolded above).

eric the espeon · May 1st, 2008, 1:54:56 PM

Agree that that could work well.

How will the TL chose what moves are classed as competitive? some things are usable but not truly competitive e.g. Dragon Rush Garchomp some would be competive but not on that pokemon e.g. EQ Blissey, Focus Blast Luke. and some are usable on gimmiky sets e.g. Mean Look on Gengar.

Should it be that the voters of CaP get to see the full movepools before the poll and say if something should be removed?

***DougJustDoug***** · May 1st, 2008, 2:05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

Agree that that could work well.

How will the TL chose what moves are classed as competitive? some things are usable but not truly competitive e.g. Dragon Rush Garchomp some would be competive but not on that pokemon e.g. EQ Blissey, Focus Blast Luke. and some are usable on gimmiky sets e.g. Mean Look on Gengar.

Should it be that the voters of CaP get to see the full movepools before the poll and say if something should be removed?

This thread is about X-Act's Guide -- not the voting process for movepools. If you want to discuss the voting process, take it to the process workshop thread. How many times do I have to say it?

eric the espeon · May 1st, 2008, 2:06:19 PM

oh yea.. sorry
you can delete my posts.

Dane · May 1st, 2008, 2:07:42 PM

Doug, if you were referencing me earlier with the usable part, I meant usable as in moves it can use rather than just ones it knows. Example being Infernape can use Nasty Plot, but doesn't learn it. You have to learn it from Chimchar's movepool to use it on Infernape, which is why I was saying for CaP Pokemon to just include all usable moves on it's movepool.

Basically, I don't want a fourth/fifth section for "Earlier Stage Moves" to start popping up.

Nopie · May 1st, 2008, 5:16:12 PM

Most Pokemon have the ability to learn Rain Dance except Fire types not named Flareon, Moltres, Entei, or Ho-oh, so you might want to include something along the lines of "7) Most Pokemon tend to learn TM18 - Rain Dance (unless they are a Fire type)."

Darkflagrance · May 1st, 2008, 10:51:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

This thread is about X-Act's Guide -- not the voting process for movepools. If you want to discuss the voting process, take it to the process workshop thread. How many times do I have to say it?

I have a feeling that the usability level of a move tends to be too subjective to lend itself to "include no more than four here and no more than three there." We also may run eventually into the problem of a pokemon that needs a lot of non-TM moves to be viable.
Wouldn't it be more constructive to allocate moves by fraction of the movepool per learning group rather than number? For example, rather than say that no more than four moves should be egg moves, instead say that no more than 10% of the "viable" movepool can be in the egg group.

At least there must be a caveat to say that this is not the way moves should strictly be allocated, and it should not influence what moves the pokemon is capable of learning.

X-Act · May 2nd, 2008, 4:12:56 AM

Sorry if I didn't edit this article... yesterday I had to attend a wedding and I didn't have the time to see the responses here.

This article is only about how to write a movepool. Not how to know if a move is viable or not, or the voting process. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone.

I'll try to edit stuff later, I promise.

X-Act · May 2nd, 2008, 8:40:56 AM

Edited the guide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darkflagrance

I have a feeling that the usability level of a move tends to be too subjective to lend itself to "include no more than four here and no more than three there." We also may run eventually into the problem of a pokemon that needs a lot of non-TM moves to be viable.
Wouldn't it be more constructive to allocate moves by fraction of the movepool per learning group rather than number? For example, rather than say that no more than four moves should be egg moves, instead say that no more than 10% of the "viable" movepool can be in the egg group.

At least there must be a caveat to say that this is not the way moves should strictly be allocated, and it should not influence what moves the pokemon is capable of learning.

I don't know if I understand you correctly, so forgive me if I don't.

What I said in the guide is

you must have up to three usable moves in the level-up list that are not TMs
you must have up to four usable moves in the egg moves list that are not TMs
the total number of usable moves in the level-up list and egg moves list that are not TMs must not exceed six

The above must hold no matter how many moves you decide to write. You can have only 4 breeding moves and all of them can be viable moves. You can have 12 breeding moves out of which only one is viable.

I decided to write those three examples to illustrate that these restrictions hold for all Pokemon, even for those that are OU. All the 3 Pokemon that I put as examples are OU, and are a Stage 2, a Stage 1 and a non-evolving Pokemon respectively.

Not Scicky · Jul 31st, 2008, 7:45:09 PM

Leafeon...

LEAF BLADE
GRASSWHISTLE
BATON PASS
QUICK ATTACK
SYNTHESIS
WISH
YAWN

Learns all those moves through level up or breeding, and are all included
in it's smogon analysis, that's 7, 7 moves, ahahaha (lame count imitation)

the_artic_one · Jul 31st, 2008, 8:20:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Atyroki

Leafeon...

LEAF BLADE level
GRASSWHISTLE level
BATON PASS prevo
QUICK ATTACK level (competitively viable is hazy here)
SYNTHESIS level
WISH egg
YAWN egg

Learns all those moves through level up or breeding, and are all included
in it's smogon analysis, that's 7, 7 moves, ahahaha (lame count imitation)

That's four level, two egg, and one prevo. The only rule it breaks is the three level move rule, and it only breaks that by one (dubious) move.

tennisace · Jul 31st, 2008, 8:39:45 PM

Since when is Grasswhistle a main-set must have option? 55% Accuracy when you could have Yawn isn't worth it.

Hyra · Jul 31st, 2008, 8:41:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darkflagrance

I have a feeling that the usability level of a move tends to be too subjective to lend itself to "include no more than four here and no more than three there." We also may run eventually into the problem of a pokemon that needs a lot of non-TM moves to be viable.
Wouldn't it be more constructive to allocate moves by fraction of the movepool per learning group rather than number? For example, rather than say that no more than four moves should be egg moves, instead say that no more than 10% of the "viable" movepool can be in the egg group.

At least there must be a caveat to say that this is not the way moves should strictly be allocated, and it should not influence what moves the pokemon is capable of learning.

I want to call darkflagrance a pyschic. He predicted this before we even started on DLL (he needs a name).

Also, Dane called the Tailwind thing.

Not Scicky · Aug 1st, 2008, 12:08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace0227

Since when is Grasswhistle a main-set must have option? 55% Accuracy when you could have Yawn isn't worth it.

Don't ask me, ask the person who wrote the analysis >>

X-Act · Aug 1st, 2008, 2:36:17 AM

Use your common sense. Don't put 18 moves in a level-up list. Don't put Earth Power, Hypnosis, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass and Hydro Pump in the same level-up move. That kind of stuff.

Just give a look at the movepools of regular Pokemon to have a good idea of how your movepool should be.

**Deck Knight** · Dec 22nd, 2008, 2:45:06 AM

I received permission from X-Act and DougJustDoug to post this proposal.

Essentially what I've been undertaking the last few days is an extensive look into movepool commonalities among types. Specifically, I looked at trends among pokemon morphology, e.g. their physical features. Special attacks are not nearly as picky as the physical ones.

The next step of the project is going through each TM, HM, Tutor Move and a final Other Competitive Move listing for what trends as far as type and features receives them.

The ultimate goal is to have a firmer grasp of movepools based on what is in the actual Pokemon game. The guide is not designed to be an iron-clad yes or no on any move, only to highlight in-game trends. It will enable us to make better, more informed movepool decisions based on data instead of "flavor."

/End Proposal outline.

I'll post some of the work I've been doing and some explanations below in Code, so you can overview them:

Code:

Essential Morphology:

Attacks which require specific morphology are almost always physical. Each feature will be covered, and later when going through the type lists, there will be abbreviations with notes on types allowed.

Beak: [B]

In order to use Pluck or Drill Peck, a pokemon must have a beak.

Claws: [C]

In order to use “Slash” or “Claw” moves, a pokemon must have claws on their hands or feet.

Fangs: [F] In order to use “Fang” attacks, Bite, and Crunch, a pokemon must have jaws capable of bearing down harshly.

Head: [He]

In order to use Head attacks, a pokemon must be able to charge head first into the enemy. Generally the harder the head, the more head attacks will be available.

Horn: [Ho]

In order to use Peck or “Horn” Attacks, a Pokemon must have a horn.

Kicks: [K]
In order to use “Kick” moves, a pokemon must be able to extend their legs in a competent manner.

Punches: [P]

In order to use any “Punch” move, a Pokemon must be able to make a fist. Sucker Punch is not considered a “Punch” move.

Rotation: [R]

In order to use Rapid Spin or Gyro Ball, Pokemon with rotund bodies or other rotation mechanisms are required. Occasionally rotation allows other moves to be used.

Tail: [T]

In order to use Tail attacks, a pokemon must have a tail.

Wings: [W]

In order to use “Air” and “Wing” moves, a pokemon must have some form of developed wing structure.

Type Diversity Matrix:

This section will go over which types tend to always have or deliberately exclude other attacking types in their movepools. After a brief overview, morphological categories listed above will be used to highlight newly available movepool options. For example, if they have Wings, Normal types usually get Flying moves and Heat Wave.

Breakdown:
Always: Attacks they will always be eligible for, invariably (90-100% possess the move)

Rare attack types: Attack types (other than weather) that can be found on only one or two of the Pokemon in the type.

Afterwards the abbreviated categories above will display individual moves pokemon with those features of that type get. E.g. No Bug types have beaks, but several have Wings. Unlike Normal types, however, Bugs with wings do not get Heat Wave.

The next section is based on the above, so its necessary to look at before moving on. The bracketed letter is the abbreviation used in the next section. Here are three excerpts:

Water:
The second most abundant type after Normal, Water has a lot of diversity in special attacks, but little in physical. It usually overrides any secondary type in movepool options.

Always: Water, Ice
Rare attack types: Fire, Grass, Psychic

B: Peck, Pluck, Drill Peck
C: Aerial Ace, Metal Claw, Night Slash, X-Scissor, Crabhammer
F: Ice Fang, Crunch
He: Iron Head
Ho: Horn Attack, Poison Jab, Megahorn, Horn Drill
K: N/A
P: Ice Punch, Brick Break, Focus Punch
R: Rapid Spin, Rollout, Ice Ball, Gyro Ball
T: Aqua Tail, Iron Tail
W: Roost, Tailwind, Twister, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Steel Wing, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind

Fighting:
Fighting types have a wide array of offensive attacks to choose from, but are treated as a secondary type when it comes to most movepools.

Always: Fighting
Rare attack types: Psychic, Bug, Dragon

B: Peck, Brave Bird
C: Aerial Ace, Shadow Claw
F: N/A
He: N/A
Ho: N/A
K: Low Kick, Double Kick, Blaze Kick, Jump Kick, Hi Jump Kick
P: Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Brick Break, Poison Jab, Sky Uppercut, Dynamicpunch, Focus Punch
R: Rapid Spin, Gyro Ball
T: N/A
W: N/A

Psychic:
Psychic types get an assortment of special attacks, but have a fairly shallow physical movepool. Usually they add their signature moves and subtract their Rare attack types from a movepool.

Always: Psychic, Signal Beam, Energy Ball and/or Grass Knot
Rare attack types: Dark, Dragon, Poison

B: Peck, Pluck
C: Aerial Ace, Metal Claw
F: N/A
He: Zen Headbutt, Iron Head
Ho: N/A
K: N/A
P: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Drain Punch, Brick Break, Focus Punch
R: Rollout, Gyro Ball
T: N/A
W: Roost, Tailwind, Featherdance, Twister, Air Cutter, Fly, Heat Wave, Ominous Wind

I'm still trying to clean up my explanations of primary and secondary types for movepool purposes.

However, the gist of it is this:

The way to read this when building a movepool is to look at the types of the Pokemon.

If a Pokemon is Water/Fighting and it has a beak, it should be able to eligible for Peck, Pluck, Drill Peck, and Brave Bird because there is precedent for this.

I'm still not completely sure if Brave Bird should be in the section though, since it seems to require a pokemon have a beak and some level of noted bravery (which explains why Fearow and Honchkrow, among other things don't get it, yet Blaziken learns it by Level-Up), but its been depicted as a full-on charge attack.

If a Water/Figthing type has Wings, Fighting is silent on the matter; no Fighters have wings. Water has a winged pokemon in Pelliper, so displayed is all of its "winged" movepool. Water types with wings get Icy Wind, but not Heat Wave.

If a Water/Fighting type has fists for Punches, then Water as a general rule overrides it. Of the waters who can use Punches, Only Ludicolo gets either Thunderpunch or Fire Punch. Every other water type is restricted to Ice Punch only. Brick Break and Focus Punch are the staples of every "Punching" pokemon.

As far as Kicks go, Water types have no impact on the matter, but Fighters can use anything.

The Head moves were actually fairly interesting. I decided to exclude both Zen Headbutt and Iron Head from the Fighting moves because only Lucario and the part Psychics actually learned ZH and only Hariyama learned Iron Head. Fighters seem to avoid using their heads for doing damage as a general rule. So really, there was only one "legit" example of a head attack for each.

And so on.

I selected Psychic for the third excerpt because I discovered that every single Psychic learns Signal Beam, and an overwhelming majority learn either Energy Ball or Grass Knot. The exceptions to Energy Ball are Espeon, and the Water/Psychic, Ground/Psychic, Rock/Psychic, and Steel/Psychic types, who all learn Grass Knot instead. Some Psychics learn both.

X-Act · Dec 22nd, 2008, 4:03:26 AM

I might be wrong, but don't all Psychic Pokemon learn Calm Mind as well?

**Deck Knight** · Dec 22nd, 2008, 4:12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

I might be wrong, but don't all Psychic Pokemon learn Calm Mind as well?

The "Psychic" in Psychic meant any move of the Psychic type. I was shooting for eligibility. For example, not every Psychic learns Psybeam, but all of them can use basically any Psychic move you put on there.

Calm Mind would be covered later under the TM section.

Just like Bulk Up is learned by all fighters, Thunder Wave by all electrics, and Will-O-Wisp by all fire types. Usually if a TM is a permanent status inducing move or a stat-up, every pokemon of the type can learn it [Tutor moves follow a different logic], Normal types and No TM pokemon excluded. Moves with weirder effects like Embargo and Snatch are not as common.

May 1st, 2008, 7:28:03 AM	#1
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	A short guide on how to create a Pokemon's movepool Hereunder is a little guide on how to create a movepool for a new Pokemon. Please help to improve it as I don't claim to be an expert on this subject. ---------------------------------- Every Pokemon movepool consists of three parts: 1) Level-up list 2) TM list 3) Egg move list I am not going to consider move tutor and special events moves here. I'm also going to assume that the movepool being created is for a final stage Pokemon. It is actually better to start from the TM list first, as this can only be created from a choice of 100 moves. The TM move list Simply choose moves from the following 100, remembering that the bold ones must be almost always chosen: Code: TM01 - Focus Punch TM02 - Dragon Claw TM03 - Water Pulse TM04 - Calm Mind TM05 - Roar TM06 - Toxic TM07 - Hail TM08 - Bulk Up TM09 - Bullet Seed TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day (except most Water and Ice Pokemon) TM12 - Taunt TM13 - Ice Beam TM14 - Blizzard TM15 - Hyper Beam TM16 - Light Screen TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance (except most Grass and Fire Pokemon) TM19 - Giga Drain TM20 - Safeguard TM21 - Frustration TM22 - SolarBeam TM23 - Iron Tail TM24 - Thunderbolt TM25 - Thunder TM26 - Earthquake TM27 - Return TM28 - Dig TM29 - Psychic TM30 - Shadow Ball TM31 - Brick Break TM32 - Double Team TM33 - Reflect TM34 - Shock Wave TM35 - Flamethrower TM36 - Sludge Bomb TM37 - Sandstorm TM38 - Fire Blast TM39 - Rock Tomb TM40 - Aerial Ace TM41 - Torment TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract (except genderless Pokemon) TM46 - Thief TM47 - Steel Wing TM48 - Skill Swap TM49 - Snatch TM50 - Overheat TM51 - Roost TM52 - Focus Blast TM53 - Energy Ball TM54 - False Swipe TM55 - Brine TM56 - Fling TM57 - Charge Beam TM58 - Endure TM59 - Dragon Pulse TM60 - Drain Punch TM61 - Will-o-wisp TM62 - Silver Wind TM63 - Embargo TM64 - Explosion TM65 - Shadow Claw TM66 - Payback TM67 - Recycle TM68 - Giga Impact TM69 - Rock Polish TM70 - Flash TM71 - Stone Edge TM72 - Avalanche TM73 - Thunder Wave TM74 - Gyro Ball TM75 - Swords Dance TM76 - Stealth Rock TM77 - Psych Up TM78 - Captivate (except genderless Pokemon) TM79 - Dark Pulse TM80 - Rock Slide TM81 - X-scissor TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM84 - Poison Jab TM85 - Dream Eater TM86 - Grass Knot TM87 - Swagger TM88 - Pluck TM89 - U-turn TM90 - Substitute TM91 - Flash Cannon TM92 - Trick Room HM01 - Cut HM02 - Fly HM03 - Surf HM04 - Strength HM05 - Defog HM06 - Rock Smash HM07 - Waterfall HM08 - Rock Climb A few comments: 1) Usually, TM moves that are of the same type as the Pokemon are learned by that Pokemon, but there are exceptions. 2) Water Pokemon tend to learn all Ice moves. 3) Fire and Grass Pokemon don't learn any Ice moves (unless they're also part-Ice or part-Water). 4) Ice and Grass Pokemon don't learn any Fire moves (unless they're also part-Fire). The Level-up list A Level-up list usually contains between 13 and 16 different moves. It must never contain more than 16 different moves. Up to three of these moves can be Heart Scale moves. If the Pokemon for which the movepool is being created has pre-evolution Pokemon, like Arcanine or Ampharos, one of the following two things happen: 1) Up to three Level 1 moves may be repeated in further levels. These moves are learned by its pre-evolution Pokemon as well. For example, Ampharos learns Growl, Thundershock and Thunder Wave at Level 1, and learns them again at Level 5, 10 and 14 respectively. 2) They have a few Level 1 moves, and then an extremely short or non-existent movepool. For example, Arcanine only learns one move at Level 39 (Extremespeed), and the other moves it learns by Level-up are all Level 1 or Heart Scale moves. In this case, the Pokemon would use its pre-evolutions' movepool. From the 13 to 16 different moves that you're going to write (including the Heart Scale moves), make sure that only one, two, or three of them are competitive moves worth using that are not already learned by the TM list. The move power of moves tends to increase as the Pokemon levels up. The Egg moves list A Pokemon may have as little as 4 egg moves and as much as 12. Usually this number is between 8 and 10. Pokemon that are genderless or that do not breed do not have any egg moves. Make sure that, from your egg move list, you don't have more than four that are competitive moves worth using. Also, the number of viable competitive moves from the Level-up list and the egg moves list (not repeated in the TM list) combined must be between two and six. Example Movepools Example 1: Gengar Level-Up: Code: 1. Hypnosis 1. Lick 1. Spite 5. Spite 8. Mean Look 12. Curse 15. Night Shade 19. Confuse Ray 22. Sucker Punch 25. Shadow Punch 28. Payback 33. Shadow Ball 39. Dream Eater 44. Dark Pulse 50. Destiny Bond 55. Nightmare Comment: It has 15 different moves. Only Hypnosis, and to a lesser extent, Mean Look are viable on Gengar. Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse are redundant since they are also TMs. TMs: Code: TM01 - Focus Punch TM06 - Toxic TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM12 - Taunt TM15 - Hyper Beam TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance TM19 - Giga Drain TM21 - Frustration TM24 - Thunderbolt TM25 - Thunder TM27 - Return TM29 - Psychic TM30 - Shadow Ball TM31 - Brick Break TM32 - Double Team TM36 - Sludge Bomb TM41 - Torment TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM46 - Thief TM48 - Skill Swap TM49 - Snatch TM52 - Focus Blast TM53 - Energy Ball TM56 - Fling TM58 - Endure TM60 - Drain Punch TM61 - Will-o-wisp TM63 - Embargo TM64 - Explosion TM65 - Shadow Claw TM66 - Payback TM68 - Giga Impact TM77 - Psych Up TM78 - Captivate TM79 - Dark Pulse TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM84 - Poison Jab TM85 - Dream Eater TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute TM92 - Trick Room HM04 - Strength HM06 - Rock Smash Comment: The reason why Gengar is said to have a "huge movepool" is clearly its TM list. Egg moves: Code: Psywave Perish Song Haze Astonish Will-o-wisp Grudge Explosion Fire Punch Ice Punch Thunderpunch Comment: Practically none of these 10 moves are viable on Gengar, except those that are TMs. Example 2: Hippowdon Level-up: Code: H. Ice Fang H. Fire Fang H. Thunder Fang 1. Tackle 1. Sand-attack 1. Bite 1. Yawn 7. Bite 13. Yawn 19. Take Down 25. Sand Tomb 31. Crunch 40. Earthquake 50. Double-edge 60. Fissure Comment: It has 13 different moves. Even though the three Heart Scale moves are somewhat viable, they are not exactly gamebreaking. And neither are Yawn and Crunch. TM list: Code: TM03 - Water Pulse TM05 - Roar TM06 - Toxic TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM15 - Hyper Beam TM17 - Protect TM21 - Frustration TM23 - Iron Tail TM26 - Earthquake TM27 - Return TM32 - Double Team TM37 - Sandstorm TM39 - Rock Tomb TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM58 - Endure TM68 - Giga Impact TM71 - Stone Edge TM76 - Stealth Rock TM78 - Captivate TM80 - Rock Slide TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute HM04 - Strength HM06 - Rock Smash Comment: Rather limited. Egg move list: Code: Stockpile Swallow Spit Up Curse Slack Off Body Slam Sand Tomb Comment: Slack Off and Curse stand out. The others 5 moves don't. Example 3: Heracross Level-up: Code: H. Night Slash 1. Tackle 1. Leer 1. Horn Attack 1. Endure 7. Fury Attack 13. Aerial Ace 19. Brick Break 25. Counter 31. Take Down 37. Close Combat 43. Reversal 49. Feint 55. Megahorn Comment: Close Combat and Megahorn are the two eye-catchers out of the above 14 moves. TMs: Code: TM01 - Focus Punch TM06 - Toxic TM08 - Bulk Up TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM15 - Hyper Beam TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance TM21 - Frustration TM26 - Earthquake TM27 - Return TM28 - Dig TM31 - Brick Break TM32 - Double Team TM39 - Rock Tomb TM40 - Aerial Ace TM42 - Facade TM43 - Secret Power TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM46 - Thief TM52 - Focus Blast TM56 - Fling TM58 - Endure TM65 - Shadow Claw TM68 - Giga Impact TM71 - Stone Edge TM75 - Swords Dance TM78 - Captivate TM80 - Rock Slide TM82 - Sleep Talk TM83 - Natural Gift TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute HM01 - Cut HM04 - Strength HM06 - Rock Smash Comment: Has all the good physical moves. In particular, the addition of Earthquake and Stone Edge to Heracross' level-up list, and Swords Dance, is what makes Heracross such a dangerous Pokemon. Egg moves: Code: Harden Bide Flail False Swipe Revenge Pursuit Double-edge Comment: Of the above 7 egg moves, only Pursuit is remotely viable. Interestingly, Heracross does not learn False Swipe via TM but learns it via egg moves. This happens only very rarely. However, if a Pokemon learns a level-up move that is also a TM, it must be listed among the TM list as well. __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet! Last edited by X-Act; May 2nd, 2008 at 8:34:08 AM.

May 1st, 2008, 7:46:47 AM	#2
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Very nice, I am glad you agree with the separating into 3 thing. It describes very well how to make a single movepool, the one problem is is that is does not tell us about how we pick the right movepool or vote on moves, I have some ideas about how this could be done and will post them soon. Edit: also a few of the Bold TMs are not on all Pokemon, e.g. Attract, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted. Last edited by eric the espeon; May 1st, 2008 at 7:49:56 AM.

May 1st, 2008, 7:56:37 AM	#3
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	This is a WIP 1. What TM/HMs it gets. Let the TL (or someone/several people appointed by the TL) write up a proposed list of what TM/HMs it should get, let people comment on it for a day or so, and have the TL (or appointed person/people) change the TM/HM learn list according to peoples suggestions (have a look in the currant movepool thread to see how I have done it). The most disputed moves are polled by Bold text voting in the same way the Punches and W-o-W were on Revenankh, with each person having a Yes or No vote for each move. 2. What Lv. up moves it gets. People discuss the possible competitive moves, the TL draws up a list of the most popular 10, Bold text vote (with each person being allowed 3 YES votes and 2 NO votes) to find the most popular 2-4, flavour moves will also be discussed, they will then be organized, by the TL or someone they select (into a Lv. up learn list). 3. Egg Moves People discuss possible moves (competitive and non-competitive), the TL draws up a list (of about 20) of those with support and they are all voted on by bold text voting (so you say yes or no for each move). One thing I am adamant about is that the flavour must be kept as an important part of the discussions, and the moves must fit with the art. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

May 1st, 2008, 8:02:02 AM	#4
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	Yeah, this guide is not about how to choose the moves at all. It's just about how to create a movepool correctly. __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!

May 1st, 2008, 11:23:52 AM	#7
Dane Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 933	Only thing I saw on first glance that I didn't like was using Arcanine as an example for how poor the level-up movepool should be. Arcanine evolves via Elemental Stone, and nearly every (if not every) Pokemon who evolves this way generally loses the ability to learn level up moves naturally. We shouldn't really try to reflect that in CaP, in my opinion. Work on it's usable movepool, and the rest (if it learns those moves as a lower stage only or not) can be determined after the necessary information is done. Look at Infernape on Shoddy. Nasty Plot is on it's movepool, but it only learns that as Chimchar. So basically, we should just aim for the usable moves, not just "that stage's learnable moves". __________________ Friend Code: 0130 1238 8236

May 1st, 2008, 1:54:56 PM	#9
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Agree that that could work well. How will the TL chose what moves are classed as competitive? some things are usable but not truly competitive e.g. Dragon Rush Garchomp some would be competive but not on that pokemon e.g. EQ Blissey, Focus Blast Luke. and some are usable on gimmiky sets e.g. Mean Look on Gengar. Should it be that the voters of CaP get to see the full movepools before the poll and say if something should be removed? __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

May 1st, 2008, 2:06:19 PM	#11
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	oh yea.. sorry you can delete my posts. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

May 1st, 2008, 2:07:42 PM	#12
Dane Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 933	Doug, if you were referencing me earlier with the usable part, I meant usable as in moves it can use rather than just ones it knows. Example being Infernape can use Nasty Plot, but doesn't learn it. You have to learn it from Chimchar's movepool to use it on Infernape, which is why I was saying for CaP Pokemon to just include all usable moves on it's movepool. Basically, I don't want a fourth/fifth section for "Earlier Stage Moves" to start popping up. __________________ Friend Code: 0130 1238 8236

May 1st, 2008, 5:16:12 PM	#13
Nopie Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 314	Most Pokemon have the ability to learn Rain Dance except Fire types not named Flareon, Moltres, Entei, or Ho-oh, so you might want to include something along the lines of "7) Most Pokemon tend to learn TM18 - Rain Dance (unless they are a Fire type)." __________________ (Rah)² + (Ah)³ + Roma + Ro + (Ma)² + (Ga)² + Ooh + (La)² = Want Your Bad Romance Last edited by Nopie; May 1st, 2008 at 5:22:23 PM.

May 2nd, 2008, 4:12:56 AM	#15
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	Sorry if I didn't edit this article... yesterday I had to attend a wedding and I didn't have the time to see the responses here. This article is only about how to write a movepool. Not how to know if a move is viable or not, or the voting process. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone. I'll try to edit stuff later, I promise. __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!

Jul 31st, 2008, 7:45:09 PM	#17
Not Scicky Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,311 Bland Juicer	Leafeon... LEAF BLADE GRASSWHISTLE BATON PASS QUICK ATTACK SYNTHESIS WISH YAWN Learns all those moves through level up or breeding, and are all included in it's smogon analysis, that's 7, 7 moves, ahahaha (lame count imitation)

Jul 31st, 2008, 8:39:45 PM	#19
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,240	Since when is Grasswhistle a main-set must have option? 55% Accuracy when you could have Yawn isn't worth it. __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Aug 1st, 2008, 2:36:17 AM	#22
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	Use your common sense. Don't put 18 moves in a level-up list. Don't put Earth Power, Hypnosis, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass and Hydro Pump in the same level-up move. That kind of stuff. Just give a look at the movepools of regular Pokemon to have a good idea of how your movepool should be. __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!

Dec 22nd, 2008, 2:45:06 AM	#23
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,843 Massachusetts	Proposal for an extensive review of Pokemon Movepools I received permission from X-Act and DougJustDoug to post this proposal. Essentially what I've been undertaking the last few days is an extensive look into movepool commonalities among types. Specifically, I looked at trends among pokemon morphology, e.g. their physical features. Special attacks are not nearly as picky as the physical ones. The next step of the project is going through each TM, HM, Tutor Move and a final Other Competitive Move listing for what trends as far as type and features receives them. The ultimate goal is to have a firmer grasp of movepools based on what is in the actual Pokemon game. The guide is not designed to be an iron-clad yes or no on any move, only to highlight in-game trends. It will enable us to make better, more informed movepool decisions based on data instead of "flavor." /End Proposal outline. I'll post some of the work I've been doing and some explanations below in Code, so you can overview them: Code: Essential Morphology: Attacks which require specific morphology are almost always physical. Each feature will be covered, and later when going through the type lists, there will be abbreviations with notes on types allowed. Beak: [B] In order to use Pluck or Drill Peck, a pokemon must have a beak. Claws: [C] In order to use “Slash” or “Claw” moves, a pokemon must have claws on their hands or feet. Fangs: [F] In order to use “Fang” attacks, Bite, and Crunch, a pokemon must have jaws capable of bearing down harshly. Head: [He] In order to use Head attacks, a pokemon must be able to charge head first into the enemy. Generally the harder the head, the more head attacks will be available. Horn: [Ho] In order to use Peck or “Horn” Attacks, a Pokemon must have a horn. Kicks: [K] In order to use “Kick” moves, a pokemon must be able to extend their legs in a competent manner. Punches: [P] In order to use any “Punch” move, a Pokemon must be able to make a fist. Sucker Punch is not considered a “Punch” move. Rotation: [R] In order to use Rapid Spin or Gyro Ball, Pokemon with rotund bodies or other rotation mechanisms are required. Occasionally rotation allows other moves to be used. Tail: [T] In order to use Tail attacks, a pokemon must have a tail. Wings: [W] In order to use “Air” and “Wing” moves, a pokemon must have some form of developed wing structure. Type Diversity Matrix: This section will go over which types tend to always have or deliberately exclude other attacking types in their movepools. After a brief overview, morphological categories listed above will be used to highlight newly available movepool options. For example, if they have Wings, Normal types usually get Flying moves and Heat Wave. Breakdown: Always: Attacks they will always be eligible for, invariably (90-100% possess the move) Rare attack types: Attack types (other than weather) that can be found on only one or two of the Pokemon in the type. Afterwards the abbreviated categories above will display individual moves pokemon with those features of that type get. E.g. No Bug types have beaks, but several have Wings. Unlike Normal types, however, Bugs with wings do not get Heat Wave. The next section is based on the above, so its necessary to look at before moving on. The bracketed letter is the abbreviation used in the next section. Here are three excerpts: Water: The second most abundant type after Normal, Water has a lot of diversity in special attacks, but little in physical. It usually overrides any secondary type in movepool options. Always: Water, Ice Rare attack types: Fire, Grass, Psychic B: Peck, Pluck, Drill Peck C: Aerial Ace, Metal Claw, Night Slash, X-Scissor, Crabhammer F: Ice Fang, Crunch He: Iron Head Ho: Horn Attack, Poison Jab, Megahorn, Horn Drill K: N/A P: Ice Punch, Brick Break, Focus Punch R: Rapid Spin, Rollout, Ice Ball, Gyro Ball T: Aqua Tail, Iron Tail W: Roost, Tailwind, Twister, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Steel Wing, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind Fighting: Fighting types have a wide array of offensive attacks to choose from, but are treated as a secondary type when it comes to most movepools. Always: Fighting Rare attack types: Psychic, Bug, Dragon B: Peck, Brave Bird C: Aerial Ace, Shadow Claw F: N/A He: N/A Ho: N/A K: Low Kick, Double Kick, Blaze Kick, Jump Kick, Hi Jump Kick P: Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Brick Break, Poison Jab, Sky Uppercut, Dynamicpunch, Focus Punch R: Rapid Spin, Gyro Ball T: N/A W: N/A Psychic: Psychic types get an assortment of special attacks, but have a fairly shallow physical movepool. Usually they add their signature moves and subtract their Rare attack types from a movepool. Always: Psychic, Signal Beam, Energy Ball and/or Grass Knot Rare attack types: Dark, Dragon, Poison B: Peck, Pluck C: Aerial Ace, Metal Claw F: N/A He: Zen Headbutt, Iron Head Ho: N/A K: N/A P: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Drain Punch, Brick Break, Focus Punch R: Rollout, Gyro Ball T: N/A W: Roost, Tailwind, Featherdance, Twister, Air Cutter, Fly, Heat Wave, Ominous Wind I'm still trying to clean up my explanations of primary and secondary types for movepool purposes. However, the gist of it is this: The way to read this when building a movepool is to look at the types of the Pokemon. If a Pokemon is Water/Fighting and it has a beak, it should be able to eligible for Peck, Pluck, Drill Peck, and Brave Bird because there is precedent for this. I'm still not completely sure if Brave Bird should be in the section though, since it seems to require a pokemon have a beak and some level of noted bravery (which explains why Fearow and Honchkrow, among other things don't get it, yet Blaziken learns it by Level-Up), but its been depicted as a full-on charge attack. If a Water/Figthing type has Wings, Fighting is silent on the matter; no Fighters have wings. Water has a winged pokemon in Pelliper, so displayed is all of its "winged" movepool. Water types with wings get Icy Wind, but not Heat Wave. If a Water/Fighting type has fists for Punches, then Water as a general rule overrides it. Of the waters who can use Punches, Only Ludicolo gets either Thunderpunch or Fire Punch. Every other water type is restricted to Ice Punch only. Brick Break and Focus Punch are the staples of every "Punching" pokemon. As far as Kicks go, Water types have no impact on the matter, but Fighters can use anything. The Head moves were actually fairly interesting. I decided to exclude both Zen Headbutt and Iron Head from the Fighting moves because only Lucario and the part Psychics actually learned ZH and only Hariyama learned Iron Head. Fighters seem to avoid using their heads for doing damage as a general rule. So really, there was only one "legit" example of a head attack for each. And so on. I selected Psychic for the third excerpt because I discovered that every single Psychic learns Signal Beam, and an overwhelming majority learn either Energy Ball or Grass Knot. The exceptions to Energy Ball are Espeon, and the Water/Psychic, Ground/Psychic, Rock/Psychic, and Steel/Psychic types, who all learn Grass Knot instead. Some Psychics learn both. __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\| Last edited by Deck Knight; Dec 22nd, 2008 at 3:58:38 AM.

Dec 22nd, 2008, 4:03:26 AM	#24
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	I might be wrong, but don't all Psychic Pokemon learn Calm Mind as well? __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!