New OU List

[X-Act]

For the question that Pulse asked:

First of all, the OU list is generated using data from the last three months (in this case April, May and June), not just the last month. This is why Milotic is OU.

Secondly, it's true that Wobbuffet was banned to ubers. However, I decided that its usage should also be used, because April, May and June statistics took Wobbuffet into account. The usages would have been completely different had Wobbuffet been banned... hence I can't just remove Wobbuffet from the list and find the cumulative frequency from there.

Admittedly, I actually did exactly that in the April list, but that was because Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet were both in limbo. Technically, when Deoxys-S was put in OU a few weeks ago, the last OU Pokemon in the ordered list should have been taken off, but I left it there to avoid confusion.

[Green Mage]

Abomasnow usage is down because of wobb. It utterly destroyed the hail team. I haven't used mine once since it became legal. Since it is now banned (thank God for Smogon), i'd expect Abomasnow back in OU next month.

Spiritomb was expected since it's a great Deoxys-E counter, but why Roserade? I honestly don't see too many, so what am I missing? Not that i'm complaining, I love roserade, but I haven't seen anything to warrant OU status yet.

[merubin]

Toxic Spikes, correlated with Wobbuffet and CP+Recover Deoxys usage.

[Lyfsaho]

Abomasnow and Kingdra where just short rises in popularity which were never going to stay in OU, the former mainly due to the existance of SR and the latter due to the obvious lack of permanent rain.

Donphan has just gotten worse and worse. Spinners are not worth their weight in most teams these days, every third pokemon gets SR and no one the hell cares about unSTABed ice shard anymore.
One has to actually look at what he's able to "counter" these days - the list got shorter by the month. Similarly, I give Hippowdon a maximum of 2 more months before it goes BL.

There is a grand total of one pokemon with a x4 rock weakness in OU, and that's because it makes for a great lead (Yanmega) and has some unique characteristics. Ninjask is just SR's latest casualty.

Porygon-z... I guess when most members look for their special sweeper these days, their first thought is "Gengar" , and so is their second one.

Wobbuffet I don't agree with, but that bird has been shot dead several times over recently. Why Milotic isn't used more only god knows. outstanding stats, hypnosis, reliable self-recovery, counters tons of stuff.


Oh, and guys, stop bashing and blaming Chomp for the shorter list of OU pokemon, I'm sure he'll have his very own little vote topic sooner rather than later.

[Kagster123]

One Roserade is making another Roserade common. She's probably the only poison type along with Tentacruel who can absorb toxic spikes and still hold its own.

[Train Man]

I'm pretty sure that the Spiritomb use can be attributed (and will be pretty consistent in months to come) due to the induction of Deoxys-E in OU. Another hunch for its increased usage in recent times could be Wobufett's testing but that line of argument is a little less feasible, because while Wobufett can not CounterCoat it, it can still Encore support moves.

While Spiritomb was first made largely popular by Obi's stall team (much like Tentacruel), I think Deoxys-E's 'demotion' to OU will create its new niche as a 100% Deoxys-E stopper.

[Aint No Sunshine]

Yes! Wobb is Uber again. I'm not really all that surprised by Donphan to BL. A guy by the name of Farmer brought that up on Marriland and TeamUber last week. Bentendo was right about Porygon-Z to BL.

[umbarsc]

Originally Posted by Fat Pulse

Umm... Simply put, the more percentage Garchomp takes up, the less percentage is left to make up the rest of OU. Therefore, yes Garchomp makes OU smaller and centralizes it.

Again,

"Correlation is not causation."

[iruchii]

Originally Posted by Fat Kagster123

One Roserade is making another Roserade common. She's probably the only poison type along with Tentacruel who can absorb toxic spikes and still hold its own.

Toxicroak, Skuntank, Nidoking and Nidoqueen can do it just fine fine.
People just ignore them for no reason at all.

edit;
Oh, and Drapion and Venomoth too!

[gorm]

ninjask being ou for so long was pretty embarassing r_r

same with donphan imo r_r

[Dr.Traveler]

Originally Posted by Fat Lyfsaho

There is a grand total of one pokemon with a x4 rock weakness in OU, and that's because it makes for a great lead (Yanmega) and has some unique characteristics. Ninjask is just SR's latest casualty.

I'm curious how much longer its going to take before folks start to look seriously at banning Stealth Rock. Even Pokemon with the x2 Rock Weaknesses are in for serious hurt. BulkyDos would be a legitimate counter to Garchomp if you could only remove Stealth Rocks from the picture.

EDIT IN:

OU Pokemon at least x2 weak to Rocks:

Dragonite
Gyarados
Salamence
Togekiss
Yanmega
Zapdos
Weaville

[nitnit]

Remove Stealth Rocks and Mence and Gyarados become more powerful, and last time I checked both were already serious threats.

[iruchii]

Originally Posted by Fat Dr.Traveler

I'm curious how much longer its going to take before folks start to look seriously at banning Stealth Rock. Even Pokemon with the x2 Rock Weaknesses are in for serious hurt. BulkyDos would be a legitimate counter to Garchomp if you could only remove Stealth Rocks from the picture.

EDIT IN:

OU Pokemon at least x2 weak to Rocks:

Celebi
Dragonite
Gyarados
Heracross
Salamence
Togekiss
Yanmega
Zapdos

Huh. Heracross takes Neutral damage from SR, and so does Celebi.

[nitnit]

Apparently Infernape and Weavile aren't SR weak either.

[iruchii]

Originally Posted by Fat nitnit

Apparently Infernape and Weavile aren't SR weak either.

Well, Infernape isn't SR weak. lol

[Kietharr]

Originally Posted by Fat Lyfsaho

Abomasnow and Kingdra where just short rises in popularity which were never going to stay in OU, the former mainly due to the existance of SR and the latter due to the obvious lack of permanent rain.

Donphan has just gotten worse and worse. Spinners are not worth their weight in most teams these days, every third pokemon gets SR and no one the hell cares about unSTABed ice shard anymore.
One has to actually look at what he's able to "counter" these days - the list got shorter by the month. Similarly, I give Hippowdon a maximum of 2 more months before it goes BL.

There is a grand total of one pokemon with a x4 rock weakness in OU, and that's because it makes for a great lead (Yanmega) and has some unique characteristics. Ninjask is just SR's latest casualty.

Porygon-z... I guess when most members look for their special sweeper these days, their first thought is "Gengar" , and so is their second one.

Wobbuffet I don't agree with, but that bird has been shot dead several times over recently. Why Milotic isn't used more only god knows. outstanding stats, hypnosis, reliable self-recovery, counters tons of stuff.


Oh, and guys, stop bashing and blaming Chomp for the shorter list of OU pokemon, I'm sure he'll have his very own little vote topic sooner rather than later.

On Milotic, I'd guess that its because pure water is a pretty mediocre typing for a physical wall. Provides no useful physical resistances while giving it an electric weak, which is right up there as far as worst weaknesses go. Awesome ability, solid movepool, and good stats though.

Oh yeah heads up for the SR discussion: Fighting resists rock, learn your resistance charts. Heracross and Ape both take neutral damage. No idea how you thought celebi was weak to it, it's grass/psychic, not bug/psychic.

[Dr.Traveler]

Originally Posted by Fat imperfectluck

Celebi and Heracross are weak to rock, Dr. Traveler?

Whoops. Fixed.

[Syberia]

Originally Posted by Fat nitnit

Remove Stealth Rocks and Mence and Gyarados become more powerful, and last time I checked both were already serious threats.

Remove Stealth Rock and teams with 4-5 Focus Sashes will be common.

[cim]

Originally Posted by Fat Rai

Abomasnow usage is down because of wobb. It utterly destroyed the hail team. I haven't used mine once since it became legal. Since it is now banned (thank God for Smogon), i'd expect Abomasnow back in OU next month.

Spiritomb was expected since it's a great Deoxys-E counter, but why Roserade? I honestly don't see too many, so what am I missing? Not that i'm complaining, I love roserade, but I haven't seen anything to warrant OU status yet.

Uh, you're... just wrong. You make a claim (Wobba ruins hail) with NO evidence. And that's not inherently obvious too. How does Wobba stop Abomasnow leads? How does Wobba stop Stallrein? (Hint: it doesn't, as even if Toxic is Encored the best they can do is a Steel switch-in and their Wobba is ruined anyway). I understand you don't like Wobba, but don't just claim shit.

Spiritomb actually moved to BL after Deoxys-E was unbanned on Shoddy, so don't think this is some kind of overcentralizing.

Also, "I haven't seen any Roserade, it shouldn't be OU" is a terrible argument. It was terrible back in RS as no one knows how little you battle, and its even worse now that X-Act is doing tiers based on actual usage.

So, in conclusion: Wrong.

Originally Posted by Fat Dr.Traveler

I'm curious how much longer its going to take before folks start to look seriously at banning Stealth Rock. Even Pokemon with the x2 Rock Weaknesses are in for serious hurt. BulkyDos would be a legitimate counter to Garchomp if you could only remove Stealth Rocks from the picture.

That's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Does Stealth Rock destroy the metagame? No. You're basically saying "Pokémon are weak to Stealth Rock, so we should ban the item!". The sheer illogicality of such an argument just... gahh.

[Kietharr]

Originally Posted by Fat Syberia

Remove Stealth Rock and teams with 4-5 Focus Sashes will be common.

I wouldn't worry too much, tyranitar is still top level OU and sandstorm still shits all over focus sash. People wouldn't be willing to risk having a team with one or two effective hold items if the enemy had a ttar or even the less common hippowdon.

[deathshadow8895]

The only thing i'm surprised at is Roserade moving to OU. Otherwise, I can see Kingdra and friends moving back down to BL. I think Spiritomb usage is going to go up as people start to utilize Deoxys-S. And i'm very glad Wobby is promoted again :).

[SubVersion]

Originally Posted by Fat umbarsc

Again,

"Correlation is not causation."

Er, I don't think you understand. The OU list is generated by calculating what Pokemon are used 75% of the time (or something like that). The more popular Garchomp becomes, the more of that 75% he takes up, directly reducing room left over for other Pokemon.

Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the way this is calculated, Garchomp's ever-increasing usage is directly linked to a slowly shrinking OU pretty much by definition.

[umbarsc]

Garchomp is being used about the same Blissey was in earlier DP, and OU was larger than it is now. Garchomp's usage alone didn't bump those Pokemon to BL.

[Phizzlax]

Originally Posted by Fat SubVersion

Er, I don't think you understand. The OU list is generated by calculating what Pokemon are used 75% of the time (or something like that). The more popular Garchomp becomes, the more of that 75% he takes up, directly reducing room left over for other Pokemon.

Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the way this is calculated, Garchomp's ever-increasing usage is directly linked to a slowly shrinking OU pretty much by definition.

Completely right. A lot of people have been throwing around "correlation is not causation" lately as a defense every time someone suggests that two things are linked, but the reality is that sometimes those things are actually linked. Like in this case, in which it can't reasonably even be argued against.

[umbarsc]

Yes it can. Look at my previous post.