(Gen 2) You know the drill.

[Ace777]

Hypno (M) @ Leftovers ** Melatonin
- Light Screen
- Psychic
- Rest
- Thunder Wave

First up is Melatonin; his job is to Thunder Wave everything in sight and Light Screen when needed. He also Rests when worn-out and uses a Stab'd Psychic.

Starmie @ Leftovers ** Echinoderm
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect
- Surf
- Thunder Wave

Pretty standard Starmie, really. Echinoderm uses Thunder Wave > Psychic becuase this team has enough Machamp protection and it focuses on paralysis. Reflect helps in a pinch and Rapid Spin to help against stall teams.

Magneton @ Leftovers ** Electrometer
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunder

Thunder > Thunderbolt on Electrometer becuase 30% paralysis rate is awesome and that extra power wouldn't hurt. Sleep Talk is there becuase this team is lacking a status taker.

Meganium (M) @ Leftovers ** Cordyceps
- Growl
- Leech Seed
- Razor Leaf
- Synthesis

Cordyceps is very helpful against Curses with Growl that seem to laugh at this team; It's also a pretty decent Marowak counter. Everything else is standard.

Marowak (M) @ Thick Club ** Ethmoid
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Elthmoid uses Hidden Powder Flying over Bug because against annoying Jumpluff. Exeggutor takes 96% ~ 100% from a Swords Danced Hidden Power anyways.

Clefable (M) @ Leftovers ** Galileo
- Belly Drum
- Encore
- Moonlight
- Return

Last but not least, Galileo the Celfable. Encore is gamebreaking when used right. Everything else speaks for itself, 'nuff said.

Well that's it. I'm also aware that I'm laking someone that can (h)phaze and a VERY HUGE Heracross weak (Need Help). It also contains no Snorlax! Also, if you plan on helping this team please keep the fatties to a minimum (Blissey, Snorlax, Skarmory, etc...) Thank You for your help.

P.S. Kingra sux (:

[133tSneasel]

I would use HP: Ice over Water on Magneton

[Ace777]

I would use HP: Ice over Water on Magneton

I was thinking about that but the thought of OHKOing Rhydon and 2HKOing Steelix is too sexy. (Assuming it does max damage >_>)

[133tSneasel]

oh and you might want to watch out for Machamp and Heracross

[Ace777]

oh and you might want to watch out for Machamp and Heracross

I Know I have a Heracross weakness, as stated in my first post. But how do I have a Machamp weak? I have Starmie, Hypno, and Meganium stalls it like no tomorrow. I'm thinking of using using Gligar over Marowak but I lose a lot of offense...

[green_flash]

dragonite learns both haze and reflect for curser, and it has a clear shot at countering heracross... give it a chance over meganium imo!

[GreenPikachu]

...or just give meganium the move COUNTER, and counter heracross's megahorn. it doesn't OHKO (unless curses are behind it, and curse heracross is a thing of the past). also, meganium is sturdy enough with leech seed/synthesis to not necessarily be worthless after the countering.


edit: i just realized today that i put "study" instead of "sturdy"

[Ace777]

dragonite learns both haze and reflect for curser, and it has a clear shot at countering heracross... give it a chance over meganium imo!

I'll try using a Dragonite over Meganium to see how it goes.

...or just give meganium the move COUNTER, and counter heracross's megahorn. it doesn't OHKO (unless curses are behind it, and curse heracross is a thing of the past). also, meganium is study enough with leech seed/synthesis to not necessarily be worthless after the countering.

Yeah, Counter could be helpful against Heracross and behind a Reflect Meganium does have a chance to beat Curselax. I'll try this idea first to see how everything runs.

Anyone else want to contribute?

[havoc]

Originally Posted by Fat Ace777

Hypno (M) @ Leftovers ** Melatonin
- Light Screen
- Psychic
- Rest
- Thunder Wave

First up is Melatonin; his job is to Thunder Wave everything in sight and Light Screen when needed. He also Rests when worn-out and uses a Stab'd Psychic.

Ok, so this is the standard and quite predictable Hypno. First, I really don't think he makes a great starter, especially with this set. He really can do nothing against the two Spikers (more on that later), and Raikou (another popular starter) can take a chunk out of Hypno with either Crunch or (ack) Thunder before Light Screen is put up.

Another issue is the fact that you're going to be Thunder Waving one of three things: Snorlax, Blissey, or Raikou. That's it. Out of those three, only one is of any significance (Raikou) because it outspeeds both of your sweepers, and even then most Raikous sport Rest and Sleep Talk--those that don't will have Reflect which will render your sweepers useless for 5 turns. After your initial Thunder Wave, Hypno is only going to sit there and Light Screen or Rest since it doesn't pose any offensive threat to any of the three things I mentioned.


Starmie @ Leftovers ** Echinoderm
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect
- Surf
- Thunder Wave

Pretty standard Starmie, really. Echinoderm uses Thunder Wave > Psychic becuase this team has enough Machamp protection and it focuses on paralysis. Reflect helps in a pinch and Rapid Spin to help against stall teams.

this Starmie does not have Recover, which is the #1 reason Starmie is as useful as it is (it's not the speed or the movepool, I promise it's Recover). I'm for originality and all, but no Recover will spell lots of trouble for Starmie, especially if your aim is to stall (which this team is pretty much a stall team).

the lack of Recover hits home on two fronts: Spikes and status. if Starmie gets statused (especially poison), it will crumple, and this goes doubly without Recover. repeated switching in on Spikes is a bitch, and should your opponent be packing an Umbreon or something, you're in trouble. Cloyster with Toxic is not unknown, and Forretress can also have Toxic in addition to a Bug Hidden Power. Starmie is also one of your only hopes against Tentacruel, leaving it potentially game for a poison bonus from Sludge Bomb.

like Hypno, you will find that Starmie's Thunder Wave will also yield little after its initial hit--in fact, since Starmie and Hypno generally cause switches to the same pokemon (read: Snorlax), Thunder Wave might give you no return at all. you may get turns to Reflect or whatever, but the more you stall, the more you're inviting someone to land a lucky hit.


Magneton @ Leftovers ** Electrometer
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunder

Thunder > Thunderbolt on Electrometer becuase 30% paralysis rate is awesome and that extra power wouldn't hurt. Sleep Talk is there becuase this team is lacking a status taker.

paralysis rate is nice and all, but what is going to switch into Magneton? the exact same things that would switch in to take the Thunder Waves from Hypno and Starmie: Raikou, Blissey, Snorlax. the extra power is compensated for when you miss at a crucial time and pull your hair out.

be sure to note that in opting for a Water Hidden Power, Magneton takes a 16-point HP drop which is noteworthy. for example, Tentacruel's Hydro Pump has a slim chance of a 2HKO on Magneton at 303 HP, but at 287 HP the chances of a 2HKO are actually quite realistic (and Spikes makes it a guaranteed 2HKO). Tentacruel can really nag at this team, and you can't rely on Sleep Talk and a 70% accurate move to take it down, because even with a Psychic Hypno (3HKO), Tentacruel is a threat to this team.

beware the sleepers. Exeggutor resists both of Magneton's attacks and can wear it down with Psychic, Gengar can carry Fire Punch and Nidoking has Earthquake. it does its job of walling Skarmory well, though.


Meganium (M) @ Leftovers ** Cordyceps
- Growl
- Leech Seed
- Razor Leaf
- Synthesis

Cordyceps is very helpful against Curses with Growl that seem to laugh at this team; It's also a pretty decent Marowak counter. Everything else is standard.

individually, this is a good set, especially paired with Reflect, but in the context of this team it has the same problem the other 3 pokemon without Rest have when it comes to taking status. your plan with this team apparently is just stalling until you find the right time to bring out Marowak, but in order to keep up with stall teams you must retain Leftovers recovery. all the Toxics that stall teams inevitably throw at you negate Leftovers, which will limit Meganium's usefulness severely since it will have to use Synthesis every other turn (and you only have 8 of them).

this is also Exeggutor bait, and though you have a good counter in Hypno, he can always be put to sleep by Sleep Powder. Houndoom, another pokemon that can walk all over this team, can switch into Meganium with relative ease.


Marowak (M) @ Thick Club ** Ethmoid
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Elthmoid uses Hidden Powder Flying over Bug because against annoying Jumpluff. Exeggutor takes 96% ~ 100% from a Swords Danced Hidden Power anyways.

Rock Slide does more to Jumpluff than any Hidden Power. Flying would probably still be your Hidden Power of choice for a shot at taking out Heracross.


Clefable (M) @ Leftovers ** Galileo
- Belly Drum
- Encore
- Moonlight
- Return

Last but not least, Galileo the Celfable. Encore is gamebreaking when used right. Everything else speaks for itself, 'nuff said.

if your opponent has Gengar or Misdreavus, this Clefable will be sadly shut down, and you really don't have any means of dealing with them. you have no Spikes to hurt them coming in, no sleep moves to incapacitate them, nothing surprising to take them out (like Pursuit), and nothing to really chip away at them. if you keep Clefable, I would highly recommend using Shadow Ball in Encore's spot, or something like Sing, which could put Skarmory to sleep when it Whirlwinds and thus leave Clefable and Marowak free.

Clefable needs attacking support to be an effective sweeper; unlike Marowak, Clefable can't take out every pokemon in one hit. however, your lack of attacking options means that Clefable will have a hard time sweeping the Rocks/Steels of the pokeworld.

be extremely wary of status inducers because they too will ruin Clefable if they land a Toxic or Thunder Wave.

Well that's it. I'm also aware that I'm laking someone that can (h)phaze and a VERY HUGE Heracross weak (Need Help). It also contains no Snorlax! Also, if you plan on helping this team please keep the fatties to a minimum (Blissey, Snorlax, Skarmory, etc...) Thank You for your help.

P.S. Kingra sux (:

[b]one of the main problems with this team is that 4 of your pokemon only have 1 attacking move, one of which has marginal usefulness (Razor Leaf). this may not be really unusual on a staple/standard GSC stall team, but underused support pokemon like Meganium need a steady onslaught of offense from everything else to really achieve their maximum utility. you're so busy trying to take hits that you don't have anything with which to hit back.

with this lack of direct offense comes a myriad of easy switchins for things that may or may not cause big problems for your team. not only in terms of attacking your team, but also by spreading status. things such as Suicune (Toxic), Nidoking (Lovely Kiss), Exeggutor, and Jumpluff (Spores) all have at least one pokemon that they can easily switch into and spread status around or just go ahead and start attacking.

as you mentioned, Heracross is a big offensive problem for this team, but he is not the only one. Nidoking will force a risky prediction war (Hypno is your safest choice but takes Earthquake pretty hard). Suicune can Toxic and shuffle stuff around with Roar--its Surf also does around ~45% to Magneton. Houndoom hits all 4 non-sweepers super-effectively and puts huge dents in the sweepers. Tyranitar can do the same. Umbreon ruins Starmie with Pursuit or can Baton Pass Mean Looks with no fear.

[Ace777]

Originally Posted by Fat havoc

[b]one of the main problems with this team is that 4 of your pokemon only have 1 attacking move, one of which has marginal usefulness (Razor Leaf). this may not be really unusual on a staple/standard GSC stall team, but underused support pokemon like Meganium need a steady onslaught of offense from everything else to really achieve their maximum utility. you're so busy trying to take hits that you don't have anything with which to hit back.

with this lack of direct offense comes a myriad of easy switchins for things that may or may not cause big problems for your team. not only in terms of attacking your team, but also by spreading status. things such as Suicune (Toxic), Nidoking (Lovely Kiss), Exeggutor, and Jumpluff (Spores) all have at least one pokemon that they can easily switch into and spread status around or just go ahead and start attacking.

as you mentioned, Heracross is a big offensive problem for this team, but he is not the only one. Nidoking will force a risky prediction war (Hypno is your safest choice but takes Earthquake pretty hard). Suicune can Toxic and shuffle stuff around with Roar--its Surf also does around ~45% to Magneton. Houndoom hits all 4 non-sweepers super-effectively and puts huge dents in the sweepers. Tyranitar can do the same. Umbreon ruins Starmie with Pursuit or can Baton Pass Mean Looks with no fear.

Thank you havoc, you critiqued it well. About the Starmie thing, I though I had recover over Thunder Wave, my mistake. I also forgot the main reasons I had Hidden Power Flying on Marowak: Heracross. I know I have only 4 of my Pokemon have only one attacking move and need more type selection (I only have 9 attack types which isn't so great). I should stop focusing on Paralysis and use more attacking moves.

Yeah, even with prediction status still screws this team. Exeggutor could just Sleep Powder my Magneton and go on a Stun Sporing rave. Suicune is also an problem like you said in your prevoius post; Magneton can't take Surfs forever. Nidoking can also go rampant on my team because it hits everything on my team with a hefty amout of damage.

Yes, Heracross does easily tear through this team. Tyranitar is also a pain becuase Meganium could get Fire Blasted during the switch on it and Marowak lacks Leftovers and Rest to keep switching on it. Lastly Umbreon, virtually makes most of my pokemon useless. I really do need to stop whoring Starmie even on my teams >_>. These 6 months from not playing Pokemon made me very rusty... so I didn't even notice most of the problems you posted.

Anyone else want to add anything havoc missed? >_>

[Ace777]

Bumping.

Alright, after much thought on what havoc said; I decided revamp this team.

Hypno (M) @ Leftovers ** Melatonin
- Light Screen
- Psychic
- Rest
- Thunder Wave

Nothing else seems to be a decent lead imo...

Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers ** Testudines
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect
- Rest
- Surf

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers ** Hakairyu
- Dynamicpunch
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Meganium (M) @ Leftovers ** Cordyceps
- Growl
- Leech Seed
- Razor Leaf
- Synthesis

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers ** Theropoda
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide

Heracross (M) @ Leftovers ** Hercules
- Megahorn
- Rest
- Seismic Toss
- Sleep Talk

Debating on weather to use this or Ampharos... If I use Heracross it means Umbry & Nidoking are not much of a problem. However, if I use Ampharos; Zapdos & friends will get walled easily. I forgot to mention this but if I use Ampharos; Tenacruel could gtfo.

Anyone want to help figure out any holes in this team?