Stratagem Playtesting

[Not Scicky]

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

This is likely a Moutaineer glitch when using U-Turn. I'll look into it. But, it has nothing to do with Stratagem, per se. I suspect Baton Pass might have a similar problem.

I don't think it's a U-turn problem, because then Syclant probably wouldn't have avoided the stealth rocks as deck knight said it had. Maybe clant only avoids one rock move on the switch?

I don't know I've never been in that situation.

[Adam Blade]

I look foward to testing Stratagem. I might try a SubPetaya set. It sounds intriguing.

[zarator]

I dont think SubPetaya is a good set... not when you can just CM on the switch

If you sub down to 25%< you will be prone to priority moves even more than before... Most importantly, the CM set can run past many walls - even Blissey - while a single boost form Petaya is too little

[twash]

Wow, this looks really awesome Doug! I have not participated in any of the CAP projects before but I certainly hope to in the future.

I'm hoping to try and get to grips with it tomorrow, I can't wait to use this new "Paleo Wave" move, as well as SubCM!

Oh, and as a side note, congratulations on Site Staff.

[eric the espeon]

Sub/Explode/Weather Ball/Flamethrower has been working really well for me, even with CM it is still stopped by Bliss and other big Sp walls but Explode lets it clear them out, while Sub removes the need for prediction.
Getting on low HP from LO recoil and Sub is not to bad as you can just blow it up if you get low due to its lovely base 130 Speed.
Its a bit better than I expected but certainly quite possible to stop.

I expect to see (and have seen) a large boost in the number of SS teams at least for the first few days.

[zarator]

Yes... Tyranitar is everywhere... Being a very good counter as well as bringing SS for Stratagem mates make him as common as ever

[SgtWoodsy]

As has been said many times already, Sub-CM Stratagem is a beast.

4 Attack @ Life Orb Stratagem is also quite good.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Sgt_Woodsy

As has been said many times already, Sub-CM Stratagem is a beast.

4 Attack @ Life Orb Stratagem is also quite good.

Sub CM is good, but Seismic Toss Blissey beats it every time. 4 Attack just doesn't work as well as I hoped. However, Technician CM/AncientPower/Giga Drain/Flamethrower @ Lefties is beast.

[jagged_angel]

Has anyone had any success with Technician Charge Beam?

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat jagged_angel

Has anyone had any success with Technician Charge Beam?

Never tried it, but I onestly dont think it would work, especially on a Tech set. Ancientpower, Giga Drain and Flamethrower cover pretty much all an electric move should hit, and Stratagem really needs the Special defense boost, so dont think of putting Charge Beam over Calm Mind

[Iron Bidoof]

I actually tried Tech Charge Beam. It had rather good results, but it really seems unnecessary, what with the option of Calm Mind and all.

Personally, I don't see how Calm Mind makes much sense on him to begin with, though. I mean, does it have much of a mind to calm in the first place?

Anywho, Charge Beam is an interesting option on the Technician set, but it seems like more of a novelty ability than a necessity, being that Giga Drain and Paleo Wave/Weather Ball cover just about everything that Charge Beam does, despite the Sp.Atk boost chance.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Iron Bidoof

Personally, I don't see how Calm Mind makes much sense on him to begin with, though. I mean, does it have much of a mind to calm in the first place?

The same way Wooper uses Focus Punch.

Anyway, Specs is suprising, and does quite a bit of damage, but like Skymin, Stratagem relies on the ability to switch attacks. All too often I find Stratagem as the last Pokemon, with no way to win with one attack. I would have had 3-5 more wins if I had the freedom to switch attacks.

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat Iron Bidoof

Personally, I don't see how Calm Mind makes much sense on him to begin with, though. I mean, does it have much of a mind to calm in the first place?

1) This is not the movepool submission thread. Stratagem movepool has been decided, we included Calm Mind because it needed it to sweep. Dont whine with flavour-like arguments about a choice which is backed by solid competitive reasoning.
2) I would be interested in how you assume that Drifblim has a mind to calm...

Seriously, keep this thrash out of here and post only if you have something to add. And since you simply repeated what i already said (unneccessary coverage + inferiority to CM) simply adding that bullshit comment, if you dont have anything else to contribute, dont bother posting - its not worth it.

@Tennis: You should use Life Orb - dunno if this make you lose certain OHKO. But I think Blissey still wall the hell out you if you either Explode or CM + Giga Drain (assuming Bliss run something like ST/Flamethrower/Wish/Protect or ST/Ice Beam/SR/Softboiled, i.e. non-status moves)

[Iron Bidoof]

Originally Posted by Fat zarator

1) This is not the movepool submission thread. Stratagem movepool has been decided, we included Calm Mind because it needed it to sweep. Dont whine with flavour-like arguments about a choice which is backed by solid competitive reasoning.
2) I would be interested in how you assume that Drifblim has a mind to calm...

Seriously, keep this thrash out of here and post only if you have something to add. And since you simply repeated what i already said (unneccessary coverage + inferiority to CM) simply adding that bullshit comment, if you dont have anything else to contribute, dont bother posting - its not worth it.

I'm not trying to change anything. I'm just stating an opinion. But I'll avoid anything else of the sort out of the thread.



Well, back on subject.

Choice Specs seemed like an interesting idea, but I went with the Life Orb, simply because of the ability to drain the health back with Giga Drain (I thought to Gengar right away)-

Wait, you just said that too.
Hm...

I've run Stratagem on a sandstorm team for a while, and the results are good for a multitude of reasons. The Weather Ball + Technician combo seems to be working well, though I'm not positive if it retains the Technician boost after the Sandstorm. Regardless, yes, Stratagem is a monster.

BTW, who else runs Vacuum Wave on it? I haven't had much luck with it, but I've never had it out against a Tyranitar, and there are a few instances where I could see it being very useful.

...Come to think of it, this seems like one of the best moves to pair with Charge Beam, as it gives Vacuum Wave the boost that it desperately needs. Eh?

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat Iron Bidoof

I'm not trying to change anything. I'm just stating an opinion. But I'll avoid anything else of the sort out of the thread.



Well, back on subject.

Choice Specs seemed like an interesting idea, but I went with the Life Orb, simply because of the ability to drain the health back with Giga Drain (I thought to Gengar right away)-

Wait, you just said that too.
Hm...

I've run Stratagem on a sandstorm team for a while, and the results are good for a multitude of reasons. The Weather Ball + Technician combo seems to be working well, though I'm not positive if it retains the Technician boost after the Sandstorm. Regardless, yes, Stratagem is a monster.

BTW, who else runs Vacuum Wave on it? I haven't had much luck with it, but I've never had it out against a Tyranitar, and there are a few instances where I could see it being very useful.

...Come to think of it, this seems like one of the best moves to pair with Charge Beam, as it gives Vacuum Wave the boost that it desperately needs. Eh?

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) Technician doesnt boost Weather Ball in a Sandstorm since, under any weather condition, WB base power becomes 100. This is true for every fluctuating-base-power move like HP, Grass Knot and Magnitude.

And also, Vacuum Wave is of little to no utility, because:
1) Besides of odd scarfers, Stratagem is too fast to benefit from the priority of Vacuum Wave
2) Most priority move users are not OHKOed by Vacuum Wave unless Stratagem has many boost under its belt, which is unlikely since, if the opponent has a priority move user, he will bring him on a predicted calm mind
3) most importantly, what move should u give up? Calm Mind would be foolish because Stratagem need the extra power to sweep. The STAB rock move is a must since not only it packs necessary power but it would also a shame to eschew because of its wonderful coverage. Giga Drain is also a must on any Technician set and allow Stratagem to deal swiftly with Swampert, Hippowdon and even Tyranitar if it does not run too SP def EVs or Stratagem has enough boosts under its belt. there we are left with one move. We could put in Flamethrower for well rounded coverage (especially towards steels), or HP flying for Revenankh (generally you will need 3 or more CM to guarantee the OHKO, though). Vacuum Wave is really worth over these 2? I dont think so

Anyway, sorry if I have been a bit rude before, but recently these kind of stupidity has really gone overboard. Your latest post, even if I dont agree with some points, was correct, so I dont have any in contrary with such contributions

[DougJustDoug**]

I just noticed that I forgot to implement Stratagem's weight on the server. I guess no one has tossed a Grass Knot at it yet?

I'll fix it in the next server update.

[sbc]

I have and it did little damage ~25%

[Infiltrator]

Yeah Doug... grass knot only does 25% of damage to Gem.