DP Regice

[Imran]

Someone mentioned this in the N / C moveset thread, and I was surprised to see that it was not on the analysis. I asked permission and wrote it this evening. Its a relativly simple set so I didn't feel that it needed too much explaining. I was unsure about the EVs, I decided in the end that emphasising HP and SpA was more important than Speed, as you want to come in on things that cant hurt it, Tentacruel for example and then hit things on the switch, but I'm prepared to be swayed. So any thoughts?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/regice


[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Explosion / Focus Blast
item: Choice Specs
nature: Sassy / Modest
evs: 240 HP / 208 SpA / 60 SpD
ivs: 27 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Due to its considerable bulk, Regice has the ability to switch in regularly and dish out damage. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the core of this set and provide excellent coverage. Hidden Power Ground hits, for super effective damage, anything that resists the BoltBeam combo, mostly notably Magnezone. It also provides a handy OHKO on the ever popular Heatran. Explosion will put a large dent in Blissey, but won’t manage to KO unless it has taken 30% damage or so first. Focus Blast will do around a third to Blissey, but comes with the added bonus of OHKOing most Tyranitar. Even a 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful variant will take 80% on average. If running Focus Blast, you may wish to invest in 48 Speed EVs in order to outspeed no Speed Blissey. Blizzard will provide Regice with extra power, enough to give it at least a chance to OHKO Heracross and Gyarados with Stealth Rock up. This is only really recommended with use alongside Hail, as the accuracy is too low to be consistantly relied on.</p>

<p>The presence of Stealth Rock hinders this set, so the EVs are designed to compensate for that. With these EVs Regice has a lot more special bulk to allow it to switch into Special attacks better. This Regice can switch into a standard defensive Zapdos’ Thunderbolt and take a maximum of 18% damage, a Timid Life Orb Zapdos can only do a maximum of 28%. This allows Regice to switch in and fire off attacks more often than it could do otherwise. You can still severly damage Infernape and Lucario. If lucky you will OHKO them, however, they will die from their own Life Orb recoil next turn when not KOed, anyway. Celebi and Heatran are still always OHKOed by Ice Beam and Hidden Power Ground respectively, assuming Stealth ROck is on the field. Finally the HP stat hits 361 allowing you to switch into Stealth Rock one extra time if need be.</p>

[Great Sage**]

For things that are very slow like Regice, the Choice sets typically invest in HP rather than Speed, especially considering you won't be outrunning much anyways.

[Imran]

Cool, glad to see I'm on the right track :D Thanks

[X-Trader]

Originally Posted by Fat Goldfan

Someone mentioned this in the N / C moveset thread, and I was surprised to see that it was not on the analysis. I asked permission and wrote it this evening. Its a relativly simple set so I didn't feel that it needed too much explaining. I was unsure about the EVs, I decided in the end that emphasising HP and SpA was more important than Speed, as you want to come in on things that cant hurt it, Tentacruel for example and then hit things on the switch, but I'm prepared to be swayed. So any thoughts?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/regice


[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Explosion / Focus Blast
item: Choice Specs
nature: Quiet / Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Due to its considerable bulk, Regice has the ability to switch in regularly and dish out damage. With the Choice Specs, Regice’s Special Attack stat reaches a respectable 492, allowing it to hit hard with any unresisted attack. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide excellent coverage, and Hidden Power Ground hits, for super effective damage, anything that resists the Bolt/Beam combo, mostly notably Magnezone and Heatran. Explosion will put a large dent in Blissey, but won’t manage to KO unless it has taken 30% or so damage first. Focus Blast will do 33-40% to Blissey, but comes with the added bonus of OHKOing most Tyranitar. Even a 252 HP / 252 SpD variant will be OHKOd 80% of the time with Stealth Rock down. The EVs emphasize Regice’s bulk, but you may choose to invest more in Speed to hit specific targets. If you wish to do this Modest nature is recommended, but remember that it will detract from the power of Explosion.</p>

Nice job on this one :)

[Imran]

Thanks. The reason I didn't mention Heatran is because it doesn't actually resist Thunderbolt so I worded it a little differently.

Added HP Ground IVs, if anyone finds better please tell me.

[Bourbon]

This is pretty nice, Regice baits Heatran, Infernape and other Fire type pokemon pretty bad, so this is a great way of beating them.

The whole Regice analysis needs a revamp IMO. I don't see why it is running maximum defense, as with Metagross, Scizor, Tyranitar and Lucario all very well equipped to deal with it, it is a collosal waste of time.

Even with maximum defense and HP, standard Mixape can OHKO Regice with Close Combat, provided Stealth Rock is down. Obviously the stronger attacks like Tyranitar's Stone Edge, Metagross Meteor Mash and Lucario's Close Combat destroy it as well. The only attack maximum Defense Regice can survive than max HP min def cannot is Scizor's Life Orb Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock damage. Both spreads survive with no Stealth Rock.


Now check this out. Those extra 252 EVs can be thrown into Special Defense, boosting it from 479 to 548, almost 15% more survivability on the special side. If you can keep the Stealth Rock away, it still makes a good Special wall. Here are some damage calculations:

Timid Scarftran's Fire Blast: 46.7-54.95%. 10.39% chance of a 2HKO with Leftovers.

Choice Specs Fire Blast from Salamence: 45.33-53.57%. 1% chance of 2HKO with Leftovers.

Modest Life Orb Zapdos' Heat Wave: 35.71-42.31%.

Gengar's Life Orb Focus Blast: 40.38-47.8%
Gengar's Scarfed Focus Blast: 31.04-36.81%

Porygon-Z's Choice Specs Tri Attack: 31.87-37.64%

Yanmega's Choice Specs Bug Buzz: 26.92-31.87%


My brain just stopped working so I forgot what else I was going to say... but basically, this is pretty good in my opinion.

[Imran]

I see what you are trying to say. The only reason I worry is that were not planning to switch in on strong physical attacks such as that, were looking to switch it in on things like Hippowdons Ice Fang and neutral Physical attacks. Although sure youre decreasing it's chances of being revenge killed effectively, but you're also limiting its ability to switch in on weaker physical mons and dish out damage. Heres an Example:

Hippowdon EQ vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regice: 40-47%
Hippowdon EQ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regice: 33-39%

Now thats enough difference to persuade me to use 252 HP but it depends on personal preference I guess, set comments perhaps? Like I said I see you point, maybe we can get more opinions on this?

[Bourbon]

I still say use 252 HP, I was talking about Regice in general, how dumb it is to have 252 HP 252 Def Regice all over the analysis!

[X-Trader]

As for HP Ground IVs make it 21 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD for Ground 68, no need to lower its defenses.

[Imran]

Good point, editing

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Fat Goldfan

Good point, editing

Actually, it's not a good point at all.

If you switch to HP Ground 68 you no longer OHKO Infernape on average, you no longer are guaranteed to OHKO 4 HP Lucario switch ins (even w/ SR). Those are just two of the top of my head, I didn't bother running other damage calcs.

With something that is SR weak, I think it's pointless to be forced to switch on two very common Pokemon when I could just OHKO them outright.

[Bourbon]

Wow, just 2 base power makes all the difference. I checked, he's right.

[Imran]

Thanks Caelum, sorry I didn't check that. I'll change it back to what it was :/

[Janenmori]

Prevalence not "prevolence".

[Jimbo]

limited in its ability to do this due

variant will be OHKOed 80% of the

Minor nitpicks

[Imran]

cheers Jimbo

[Sapientia]

I don't see this sets point tbh
If you want to benefit from its special attack I would play something with life orb and thunder wave. That would need 16 Spd EVs to take out paralyzed scarf heatran, max satk, and the rest into hp. If life orb doesn't do much more dmg i'd use leftovers, but this seems to be a more viable offensive regice

[Imran]

Why would you choose to use a Life Orb that actually damages Regices ability to take hits. Regice can already survive at least one Fire Blast from Heatran so whats the point really? Specs allows Regice to come in and fire off powerful hits without losing its durability. Why would you get rid of one of Regices best assets?

[Sapientia]

I don't like Life Orb myself to be honest, so max satk and leftovers should be the best solution, but a that slow choice pokemon with stealth rock doesn't work, you just have 5 hits if you don't get hit (whats impossible)
If you use specs you just switch in and perhaps kill one sweeper if you predict right, but you'll hardly get another hit as perhaps people send blissey in like they did back in adv

[Imran]

I'm not saying the set is amazing, sure it has its set back, Blissey etc... but it does have explosion for that if nessecary. If Blissey falls below 60% health or so, it will be 2HKOd by Focus Blast and OHKOed by Explosion. It will hit things hard, it has good coverage, and the user may choose to use Rapid Spin support. There set is definately not "unviable" and has the ability to do well if played right.

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Fat Sapientia

I don't like Life Orb myself to be honest, so max satk and leftovers should be the best solution, but a that slow choice pokemon with stealth rock doesn't work, you just have 5 hits if you don't get hit (whats impossible)
If you use specs you just switch in and perhaps kill one sweeper if you predict right, but you'll hardly get another hit as perhaps people send blissey in like they did back in adv

You could say that for quite a few choice users be it Zapdos, Salamence, Abomasnow, Glaceon, Gyarados etc, what exactly is your point? As Goldfan said, Wish support isn't out of the question. Wish Vaporeon makes an excellent pairing with Regice if you think about it, and that's just one example.

Also, since when does a Choice Specs user being walled by Blissey make it non-viable? It's Blissey. Specs Alakazam & Lucario are like the only two that even have a shot at taking down Blissey one-on-one with a Specs set and even they struggle.

Edit: Agreeing with Twash below me also ^__^

[twash]

I would add some stuff on what this set does in Hail, especially extra KOs from Blizzard.

51.24% - 60.4% - Blizzard to +252/252 Swampert (2HKO with SR + Leftovers)
40.35% - 47.77% - Ice Beam to +252/252 Swampert

95.54% - 112.87% - Blizzard to +252/252 Celebi (OHKO with Hail)
75.74% - 89.6% - Ice Beam to +252/252 Celebi (possible OHKO with SR)

80.72% - 95.18% - Blizzard to 4/0 Gyarados (OHKO with SR)
63.55% - 75.3% - Ice Beam to 4/0 Gyarados

85.63% - 100.92% - Blizzard to 104/0 Heracross (OHKO with SR + Hail)
67.89% - 80.12% - Ice Beam to 104/0 Heracross

Pretty neat stuff, especially Heracross which may come in to Close Combat. Definitely deserves a mention of some sort, imo.

[Imran]

Will add Blizzard Stuff thanks for the heads up Twash, do you reckon I should actually include those calcs to back it up or just say it?

[twash]

Just saying that it nets many more guaranteed KOs such as the OHKO on Celebi with SR should be fine.

[Sapientia]

Originally Posted by Fat Caelum

You could say that for quite a few choice users be it Zapdos, Salamence, Abomasnow, Glaceon, Gyarados etc, what exactly is your point? As Goldfan said, Wish support isn't out of the question. Wish Vaporeon makes an excellent pairing with Regice if you think about it, and that's just one example.

Also, since when does a Choice Specs user being walled by Blissey make it non-viable? It's Blissey. Specs Alakazam & Lucario are like the only two that even have a shot at taking down Blissey one-on-one with a Specs set and even they struggle.

Edit: Agreeing with Twash below me also ^__^

specs, in my opinion, isn't rly viable besides of uu or how often do you see a specs user?
And the choice user you say are all faster then 50 base spd (you can't even overtake blissey, so a 2hko doesn't help you). The lack of speed is the point that makes this not good enough for the ou metagame. So how do you play it? Switch into something like Zapdos, here you get 25% dmg from the stealth rocks and ~25% from a tbolt, so you didn't do anything and are around 50% life. Then - with the right prediction - you can take out a physical sweeper, but then he knows your set and with your next switch you have very little hp.
Of course wish vaporen can wish at a zapdos switch in and pass the wish to regice, but if you're <50% regice dies though and spin support doesn't really work with all this rotoms around.
It's biggest Problem is its very low spd, compared with the stealth rock weak, that make it quite easy to take out. You perhaps kill one and are killt by anything and stealth rocks. Also that slow choicers really fail, I played cb-donphan in 386 to use it's amazing atk, but it just doesn't work as it just can hit something and switch or die.
And I would wether play it faster or with sdef invest as a real special "wall" with a lot of wish support or rest and a heal beller (lol). But at least take 48 Spd EVs to take out blissey please
But i would play it offensive with tw and leftovers, so you just have 328 satk, but imo that can take a lot more...