DP Research Thread #4 ("Newer still")

[Syberia]

I just got the weird Rain Dance/Sandstorm glitch again, this time when my Tyranitar used Pursuit against a Starmie switching out. But I have used Pursuit plenty of times without getting the glitch.

The circumstances were largely the same as the last time I got the glitch; Tyranitar switched in on Starmie's Ice Beam, Starmie switched out, as I Pursuited for the KO. Then the damaging rain began.

I was, of course, battling using Platinum. From what I can tell, this glitch may have something to do with using Pursuit on a fleeing opponent in the sand.

[Thatsjustpeachy]

i saw the glitch while battling syberia for some reason it happened right after my starmie died. I was battling from diamond incase that matter but the glitch was awesome. :). first time getting it

[Peterko]

from the other topic that dealt specifically with end-of-turn-effects http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28946

I think you should make an article like the move priority one Obi (note that I´ve done almost all of the tests for this list :)

Originally Posted by Fat Obi

End-of-turn effects

1.0 Reflect wears off
1.1 Light Screen wears off
1.2 Safeguard fades
1.3 Tailwind ends

2.0 Wish

3.0 Hail, Rain, Sandstorm, or Sun message

4.0 Dry Skin, Hydration, Ice Body, Rain Dish

5.0 Gravity

6.0 Shed Skin, Speed Boost
6.1 Ingrain
6.2 Black Sludge, Leftovers
6.3 Leech Seed
6.4 Burn, Nightmare, Poison, Poison Heal
6.5 Flame Orb activation, Toxic Orb activation
6.6 Curse (from a Ghost)
6.7 Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Wrap
6.8 Magnet Rise
6.9 Yawn
6.10 Sticky Barb

7.0 Doom Desire, Future Sight

8.0 Perish Song

9.0 Trick Room

10.0 Pokemon is switched in (if previous Pokemon fainted)
10.1 Toxic Spikes
10.2 Spikes
10.3 Stealth Rock

Now for an explanation:

If something has a priority of 4, it always goes before a 5. If it has a 2, it's always after a 1. Etc. However, for a faster Pokemon, their things within a 4, for example, will all go before a slower Pokemon's 4s. So Deoxys-S's Toxic Orb will activate before Shuckle's Ingrain, but Quagsire's Leftovers will be before its own Burn damage.

So in other words, if one Pokemon were to have all these things happening at once, it would happen in the order listed. But if two Pokemon of differing Speeds were to have all these happening, faster Pokemon gets all the 1 effects, then the slower Pokemon gets the 1 effects, faster Pokemon gets all the 2 effects, then the slower one, etc.

What determines the order a Pokemon is switched in to replace a fainted Pokemon? The only three scenarios I could imagine would be: Speed of previous Pokemon, Speed of Pokemon coming in, whoever makes the selection first comes in first. Assuming Trick Room does end before a Pokemon comes in, I don't imagine it being the Speed of the previous Pokemon, though.

Still need Bad Dreams.

Originally Posted by Fat Obi

Where on this list is the end of Outrage / Petal Dance / Thrash?

link battle tests (yeah I have 2 DS now): outrage confusion came before sticky barb, after sandstorm, after black sludge, after burn, after sand tomb, before yawn, before magnet rise (I had to catch a technician smeargle for the last one ._.)

hmm maybe another interesting thing to test would be double battle two pokémon targeting one foe with 6.7 or even 3 pokémon targeting one with 6.7 moves lol

link double battle test: wrap shuckle, clamp+whirlpool gorebyss, sand tomb hippowdon vs snorlax
- sand tomb trap was first, then wrap, clamp last and only sand tomb hurt as an end-of-turn-effect...also the special message (like "clamped the snorlax") is only applied for the first one of the group that hits


End-of-turn effects

1.0 Reflect wears off
1.1 Light Screen wears off
1.2 Safeguard fades
1.3 Tailwind ends

2.0 Wish

3.0 Hail, Rain, Sandstorm, or Sun message

4.0 Dry Skin, Hydration, Ice Body, Rain Dish

5.0 Gravity

6.0 Shed Skin, Speed Boost
6.1 Ingrain
6.2 Black Sludge, Leftovers
6.3 Leech Seed
6.4 Burn, Nightmare, Poison, Poison Heal
6.5 Flame Orb activation, Toxic Orb activation
6.6 Curse (from a Ghost)
6.7 Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Wrap - end of turn damage and trapping effect (including the message) only applies to the first trapping move that hit, all other moves in this group that target the same pokémon only do the initial damage without the special trapping message
6.8 Outrage confusion, Thrash confusion, Petal Dance confusion
6.9 Magnet Rise
6.10 Yawn
6.11 Sticky Barb

7.0 Doom Desire, Future Sight

8.0 Perish Song

9.0 Trick Room

10.0 Pokemon is switched in (if previous Pokemon fainted)
10.1 Toxic Spikes
10.2 Spikes
10.3 Stealth Rock

Originally Posted by Fat Obi

(both of these must be tested in Wi-Fi / link battle, as the Battle Tower has different mechanics for this sort of thing)


Colin: you know, we never got an answer to the one question about draws
Colin: whether there is a check for deaths between end of turn effect tiers

In other words, Sandstorm is going Blissey is brought to 1% after Celebi hits it with a Grass Knot, Celebi is about to faint to Perish Song. Does the game end in a draw, because both Pokemon faint that turn, or does Celebi win because the Sandstorm activates before Perish Song? Similarly, if both Pokemon are burned and have 1% left, is it a draw or does the slower Pokemon win?

Graviton: Metagross uses Explosion, both Pokemon faint
Graviton: Both people try to send in, say, Shedinja
Graviton: And boht sides have SR down
Graviton: Do both sides then pick a new Pokemon?
Colin: Actually I asked something like this before
Colin: And I remember what the verdict was
Colin: the turn proceeds as normal, with end of turn effects taking place with no pokemon out
Colin: (so reflect can still fade)
Colin: then they both choose
Colin: that was what I heard last time I asked at least
Kanoa has joined Official Server.
Colin: I think you were even involved in that discussion :p
Colin: and that answer was provided by Hiplup, but it may have just been a guess

link battle tests:

1. burn orb tyranitar vs latios
last turn - latios was about to faint by sandstorm, tyranitar by burn,
sandstorm fainted latios, battle ended, tyranitar trainer won

2. metagross explodes on tyranitar, faster luxray (193 HP) and slower articuno (196 HP) are sent out, they use charge and agility
last turn - sandstorm faints articuno, sandstorm faints luxray, draw

3. slower sticky barb luxray (193 HP) vs faster black sludge weavile (173 HP)
last turn - weavile faints, luxray trainer won


ANSWERS/RESULTS:

1. outrage/thrash/petal dance confusion is 6.8 and comes after multiturn trapping moves (6.7) and before magnet rise (previously 6.8)

2. only the first 6.7 move that hits the target applies as end-of-turn-effect

3. the game checks for KO after each group of end-of-turn-effects, the battle will end in a draw only if both pokémon are about to faint through the same end-of-turn-effect; if group 6 is applied, faster pokémon faints, slower wins

4. order in which the pokémon are sent out:
a) start of the battle -> the challenger sends out his pokémon first (in-game always the AI, link battle always the "join group" one not the "leader")

WILL TEST:
- order in which the pokémon are sent out if there is a double faint in the same turn (explosion or status/weather etc.)
- double faint -> spikes -> end of turn effects before or after new pokémon are sent out
- 0.75x double battle modifier for multitarget moves
- maybe CH rate



EDIT:

order in which the pokémon are sent out

a) at the start of the battle, turn 1
- ingame always the AI
- link battle always the "join group" one not the "leader"

b) if there is a double faint in the same turn
- link battle always the "leader" first, never the "join group" one

tests: leader (L), join group (JG)

JG explodes, in comes
1. poochyena (6 speed, lv.2) -> L (clicked switch first)
2. heatran (220 speed, lv.79) -> JG (clicked switch second)

JG explodes, in comes
1. starmie (352 speed, lv.100) -> L (clicked switch second)
2. weavile (232 speed, lv.50) -> JG (clicked switch first)

L explodes, in comes
1. tentacruel (96 speed, lv.44) -> L (clicked switch second)
2. heatran (220 speed, lv.79) -> JG (clicked switch first)

JG explodes, in comes
1. starmie (352 speed, lv.100) -> L (clicked switch first)
2. metagross (lagging tail, lv.100) -> JG (clicked switch second)

L explodes, in comes
1. heatran -> L (clicked switch second)
2. tentacruel -> JG (clicked switch first)

L explodes, in comes
1. heatran
2. tentacruel

double switch, in comes
1. L
2. JG

sandstorm double faint in the same turn, in comes
1. L skarmory (91 speed)
2. JG weavile (232 speed)


double battle explosion tests:
- whenever all 4 pokémon are alive, the 0.75x modifier is applied
- after one target faints, be it friend (partner) or foe, the 0.75x is not applied on the 1 or 2 pokémon that are hit the same turn after the KO
possible explanation - the game acts as "1 vs 1" after one target faints because the exploder is not taken into account, the game doesn´t care if the "1 vs 1" is partner vs foe or foe vs foe

exploder - lv. 79, 170 attack heatran
P - partner
F1 - foe 1
F2- foe 2

P - 293 defense, 208 speed metagross -> hit first, 68 damage
F1 - 164 defense, 94 speed snorlax -> hit second, 250 damage
F2 - 198 defense, 91 speed skarmory -> hit third, 99 damage

P - weavile -> hit first, fainted
F1 - 164 defense, 94 speed snorlax -> hit second, 299 damage
F2 - 198 defense, 91 speed skarmory -> hit third, 126 damage

P - 293 defense, 208 speed metagross -> hit first, 62 damage
F1 - tentacruel -> hit second, fainted
F2 - 198 defense, 91 speed skarmory -> hit third, 138 damage

F1 - tentacruel -> hit first, fainted
F2 - 164 defense, 94 speed snorlax -> hit second, 295 damage
P - 293 defense, lagging tail metagross -> hit third, 85 damage

[ΩDonut]

I don't remember if this has ever been tested, but does the Life Orb boost apply to Future Sight\Doom Desire?

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

I don't remember if this has ever been tested, but does the Life Orb boost apply to Future Sight\Doom Desire?

From our Future Sight page:

"Life Orb does not boost Future Sight's damage"

The same goes for Doom Desire.

[Syberia]

I got the Rain Dance/Sandstorm glitch again. At this point, it seems to consistently appear whenever I use Pursuit on a fleeing pokemon and KO it, at least with Tyranitar.

In this case, though (never tried it before), my Suicune's Surf appears to be boosted by Rain Dance. Even though I never used Rain Dance. The rain still damages both pokemon as it did before, Sandstorm has the same effect.

Bringing Tyranitar back in ends the odd weather, and restores a normal sandstorm.

[AJC]

wow awesome glitch this is almost more epic than the old first editon jap DP pursuit not locking when KOing a fleeing pokemon

[Wes]

Does the SpD of Rock-types still get a boost in that Rain Dance/SS glitch?

[atheistdrifloon]

What about Ludicolo's Rain Dish?

[Syberia]

Yes, and I don't know. Swift Swim should also be tested.

[imperfectluck]

Has anyone started research on whether Platinum's breeding for IVs inheritance formula has been changed?

[kd24]

How is Magnitudes power determined through each stage (magnitude 4, 5, 6, 7, ect.)

[RBG*]

Originally Posted by Fat KD24

How is Magnitudes power determined through each stage (magnitude 4, 5, 6, 7, ect.)

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Magnitude

i've added the magnitude numbers to the site, it just needs to be cached

[kd24]

awesome thanks!

[MegaMewtwo]

Something kinda strange happened in a battle I had in the Battle Tower, and I figured here would be the best place to talk about it.

Basically, I was playing in the Multi Battle mode, and me and my CPU partner were against a single Wobbuffet (I'd killed the other trainer's team and my partner was setting itself up).

Then:
Primeape (mine) used Fire Punch! The foe Wobbuffet fainted!
Snorlax (partner's) used Curse! But there was no target...

If this was ever known, it sure wasn't documented anywhere I've seen.

[nyczxjay]

I just got the acid rain glitch in my last battle again and I don't know if this was brought up already, but based on damage calcs, the rain not only doubles SS damage, but it weakens fire moves and (assumingly) powers up water moves too. My Salamence only did about 50% to a 6 HP/ 0 SpD Metagross with Flamethrower when based on Metalkid's calc, it should've done 86.75% - 102.32%. In the rain, it does 43.38% - 50.99% where the damage I did falls nicely into.

[Syberia]

Did it happen to occur right after you used Pursuit on a fleeing pokemon in the sand?

[nyczxjay]

Yea, it happened after I Pursuited and KO'ed the pokemon switching out. But I don't think it's the primary cause of the glitch since I've KO'ed fleeing pokemon with Pursuit before and the glitch didn't start. Sometimes it just happens randomly. I think it probably increases the chances of it happening though.

[Syberia]

Well I've seen it three times, and each time was after I used the move Pursuit. Glad to know it doesn't always happen (you were using Tyranitar as your Pursuiter, right?), as I've been kinda wary of using Pursuit in my last couple wi-fi battles, as getting hit by Sandstorm twice in a turn is really annoying.

[Mario With Lasers]

Does it happen only in Pt vs Pt battles, or D/P vs Pt also works? I'm gonna buy a new DS, so I could test it a little.


EDIT: By the way, a user from another forum I'm a member said to have found a glitch. It's simple, according to him. You just need to put a Giratina-A in your party and then, from the Pokémon PC, give the Platinum Orb to it. It will transform to Giratina-O, with no animation. However, it will keep its stats of Giratina-A, but will be a Giratina-O.

I know it's not THAT useful because of no Leftovers, but can someone confirm this? I'm not with my DS now (meh :/), but he's not the kind of guy that would post bullshit.

[nyczxjay]

Yea I was using Ttar. Since you say that it happens only after Pursuit, I'm not too sure on what I said about it happening randomly. I think I remember it happening randomly before but I can't be too sure since the battle I remember it happening at random was a while ago (my memory's a bit fuzzy when it come to my battles). I think it's better to just go for the Pursuit. I'd rather net that kill when I have the chance.

@ Arael: It happens in both Pt vs Pt and Pt vs D/P.

[Mario With Lasers]

Well nice, I've tried the glitch mentioned in my last post, and it does work, and both ways: You can have a Giratina-O with -A's stats, and a Giratina-A with -O's stats. Once you put them in a box, however, their stats are recalculated properly. The glitch is the only non-AR way to "kind-of" use Giratina-O on Wi-Fi ("kind-of" because you don't get Levitate, you stay with Pressure), but it's worth the trade-off, because you can use it with any item besides Platinum Orb.

But it won't be added in the ladder, right? =(

[Jibaku*]

No it's not really worth it because immunity to Toxic Spikes is amazing :D. I don't like Levitateless Giratina-O :(

I messed around with this Giratina glitch and came up with these results
- If you add a rare candy on them, their stats will recalculate, causing oddities such as + -32
- Torn/Distortion World apparently recalculates them as well
- If you want to give this thing Leftovers or something, you must do it from the PC or its stats will recalculate.

It's not going to be useful (it might to some people, though), but it's a good find nonetheless.

[Legacy Raider]

Wow, Platinum sure has a lot of glitches. Iirc, DP didn't really have anything as major as the rain/sandstorm glitch or this Giratina glitch. The only things I can recall are the CB Pursuit glitch, and the Choice locked U-turn glitch.

[Mario With Lasers]

I thought the U-Turn thing still happened in Platinum? Never tested it, though.

And the funny part of the Pursuit glitch is that is happened since ADV, but no one (not even Nintendo!) noticed that because Pursuit was special back then.