CAP Server Statistics - November 2008

[DougJustDoug**]

CAP numbers are incredibly small compared to Smogon U, but that's a given. A sample of 2000-3000 battles is not irrelevant. Look at the Little Cup ladder if you want to see irrelevant...

I am concerned that the CAP pokemon are too disruptive as a collective group. I was talking to SoT last night, and he was talking about a squad he faced that had Stratagem/Fidgit/Pyroak/Revenakh/Syclant. While that team has a bit of a Flying-weak -- it's not terrible. The issue is that it is ALL CAP POKEMON. I'm fine with a CAP metagame. But we don't need people facing entire teams of all-new pokemon. That's ridiculous. The thing is, the team mentioned above is not horrible. It may not be the best OU squad, but it's not horrible. Against the average OU player, it's horrifying -- because 5 out of 6 pokemon are completely new. I'm not going to rehash Mag's "Accessiblity" PR thread, but it is a concern....

[eric the espeon]

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

CAP numbers are incredibly small compared to Smogon U, but that's a given. A sample of 2000-3000 battles is not irrelevant. Look at the Little Cup ladder if you want to see irrelevant...

Agreeing, also the reason for the tiny number of LC ladder battles is not surprising due to the Choice Glitch (which can be avoided off ladder) and the partial implementation of Platinum Tutors. Basically the metagame is in limbo and should recover once those two things are no longer issues.

I am concerned that the CAP pokemon are too disruptive as a collective group. I was talking to SoT last night, and he was talking about a squad he faced that had Stratagem/Fidgit/Pyroak/Revenakh/Syclant. While that team has a bit of a Flying-weak -- it's not terrible. The issue is that it is ALL CAP POKEMON. I'm fine with a CAP metagame. But we don't need people facing entire teams of all-new pokemon. That's ridiculous. The thing is, the team mentioned above is not horrible. It may not be the best OU squad, but it's not horrible. Against the average OU player, it's horrifying -- because 5 out of 6 pokemon are completely new. I'm not going to rehash Mag's "Accessiblity" PR thread, but it is a concern....

So long as that team is not overpowered I do not see a problem, sure to someone new it will be a hard match but if they have read the analysis for all the CaPs and have a decent team they should have a chance, there will always be an adjustment period. If fact I have been waiting for CaP 6 so I can try out a gimmick mono CaP team for quite some time.

Edit: Me and Wyv discussing the differences in use between CaP and OU, thought it may interest some people. Warning very long.

*Some stuff about Revenankh that got cut off*
eric the espeon: yes, its a top class pokemon that can sweep if you don't know how to play against it  
Wyverii: It works like any other bulky stat upper except it tends to work better than most. A counter for Rev might make things easier.  
floom has left Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server.  
Tesy has left Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server.  
eric the espeon: There are some great counters  
eric the espeon: Zappy with MS or HP Fly is my fave but things like Kiss and Fidgit work too  
eric the espeon: Leach Seed + a decent special attacker is effective  
eric the espeon: Powerful Phychic/Ghost/Flying attacks in general should do a lot but you have to get them in fast before it sets up.  
Wyverii: That's where most people fall.  
Wyverii: They let him set up.  
eric the espeon: yea  
eric the espeon: some OU teams just don't happen to have a counter though  
eric the espeon: Or people go to Heatran or something and hope  
Wyverii: Yea, thinking about it he is a bit centralizing.  
eric the espeon: Well it reqires every team to have at least one fo the ~15 Pokemon that can take it on, or one of the ~5 that counter it well.  
eric the espeon: Or risk a easy loss  
Wyverii: Togekiss or Zapdos tend to good Pokes here in general though so it not bad enough to warrent his statistics.  
eric the espeon: Without Ice Punch IMO its not that bad, but IP Rev is very hard to take out if used well  
eric the espeon: SkyMin is 1KO'd some of the time, Mence is 2KOd and Zappy/Kiss can be forced to roost and hit by Hammer Arm  
Wyverii: Probably just used as a newbie killer and a good all round threat. I'm glad Rev was revised.  
eric the espeon: Yea, its a bit more fair now. But its still a great Pokemon.  
Wyverii: Not to forget a great spin blocker  
eric the espeon: mm  
eric the espeon: that too  
eric the espeon: wonder how far Dusknoir fell..  
Wyverii: 85 in current stats. 63 uses out of 2799.  
eric the espeon: lol  
Wyverii: Rev killed him. lol  
eric the espeon: 35th in OU  
eric the espeon: thats quite a fall  
Wyverii: He ties with Houndoom.  
eric the espeon: Gallade is 68/48  
eric the espeon: Breloom only fell from 36 to 43  
Wyverii: Hmm, Milotic's 71.  
eric the espeon: where?  
Wyverii: In CAP  
eric the espeon: Ninjask is higher on normal, but missed out CaP OU  
eric the espeon: 49th on normal  
eric the espeon: 46th here  
Wyverii: Apparent reason: lack of noobs xD  
eric the espeon: yea..  
eric the espeon: Ok I was wrong about that one  
eric the espeon: Yanmega and Ninjask swapped places..  
Wyverii: I guess small movements don't need too much of a reason.  
Wyverii: Yanmega doesn't do too badly here.  
eric the espeon: OU: Yan 46, Nin 49. CaP Yan 49, Nin 46  
eric the espeon: ops  
Wyverii: Wow, that's kinda weird  
eric the espeon: no thats right  
eric the espeon: yea..  
eric the espeon: a little  
tct93 has joined Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server.  
Wyverii: I'm chalking it down to coincedince.  
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Wyverii: I wish people wouldn't do that  
eric the espeon: leave straight after entering?  
eric the espeon: wow...  
Wyverii: Yea  
eric the espeon: Snorlax fell from 32 to 56  
Wyverii: Pretty big jump  
eric the espeon: mm  
eric the espeon: Rev sets up on it  
eric the espeon: Fidgti Encores it  
eric the espeon: thats kinda stuff  
eric the espeon: *that  
Wyverii: I remember somebody tried to set up a curselax on a rev before.  
eric the espeon: I have had that a few times, great fun  
eric the espeon: One of the few things Rev outspeeds after two hammer arms  
eric the espeon: Cress dropped from 34 to 56...  
Wyverii: It's one of those situations where I can't stop grinning and wanting to say "your fucked"  
eric the espeon: Yea, great fun  
Wyverii: Any reason for Cress dropping?  
eric the espeon: not that much  
eric the espeon: Maybe Tar's popularity?  
eric the espeon: 9 on OU, 4 here  
eric the espeon: SS and STAB Pursiut may help to explain it  
eric the espeon: but thats a massive drop for such a strong wall  
Wyverii: Neh, it might just be current popularity trends. We do have a small base after all. It's how we ended up with Abomasnow so high.  
eric the espeon: hmm  
eric the espeon: Maybe...  
eric the espeon: Oak?  
eric the espeon: They are kinda simmilar  
eric the espeon: Both hate SS  
eric the espeon: Both are very tough tanks  
Wyverii: Oak can really set up though  
eric the espeon: Both die to Tar's STAB moves  
Wyverii: *can't  
eric the espeon: But Oak can do much more with 1-2 turns  
Wyverii: And Cressy can't leach seed. I guess if I had to pick between them it would be oak. 
eric the espeon: Toxic their DDMence on the switch, LS their Heatran that kinda thing 
eric the espeon: Maybe Oak outcompetes it, also people like to try CaPs 
eric the espeon: lol 
Wyverii: Cress still has its unique points so it's not outclassed like dusknoir is to rev. 
eric the espeon: | 135 | Donphan | 19 | 
eric the espeon: Thats on ladder. 
Wyverii: ...what? 
eric the espeon: And for OU it goes 
eric the espeon: | 42 | Donphan | 15555 | 
eric the espeon: hahahahah 
Wyverii: Which is which? 
eric the espeon: yea, so Donphan took a hit 
eric the espeon: OU is the one with more than 20 uses. 
eric the espeon: CaP has 19 
Wyverii: I never got how Donphan was supposed to be so good anyway 
eric the espeon: Ice Shard+Rapid Spin helps soem teams 
eric the espeon: But the best spin blocker sets up on it and sweeps 
eric the espeon: and Ice is not as useful here 
Wyverii: There's better spinners even in OU. It's outclassed highly by Fidjit and rev's a big threat. 
eric the espeon: yea 
eric the espeon: I can see Don falling, but to 135? 
Wyverii: I guess it all adds up. 
eric the espeon: mm 
Wyverii: Tentacruel's still doing well 
eric the espeon: Weavile only fell two places 
eric the espeon: 49 to 51 
eric the espeon: yea, tenta is doign great 
eric the espeon: 19 on CaP 
eric the espeon: 39 on OU 
eric the espeon: Best Oak counter, can slow Revvy, still is good against Ant. 
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Wyverii: I ran a grass move on oak before so if I remember correctly I could deal with tenta. 
eric the espeon: still only nutral damage 
eric the espeon: and Tenta can set up 
eric the espeon: hi LF 
eric the espeon: Also check this one out 
Wyverii: Hmm? 
eric the espeon: OU: | 8 | Gengar | 
eric the espeon: CaP 
eric the espeon: | 27 | Gengar | 322 | 
eric the espeon: thats significant 
Wyverii: Holy crap how did that happen? 
eric the espeon: urm 
eric the espeon: not 100% sure 
eric the espeon: probably a mix of... 
eric the espeon: Oak walling, Rev SSing, Strata and Ant outcompeteing and Tar's popularity 
eric the espeon: And Hyposis dropping quite a lot of acc 
LF: heya eric 
Snowolfang has joined Doug's Create-A-Pokemon Server. 
eric the espeon: Skarm is doing well this month 
eric the espeon: hi LF 
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eric the espeon: CaP: | 11 | Skarmory | 
eric the espeon: OU: | 30 | Skarmory | 
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eric the espeon: I like the way CaP and OU are drifting apart and different pokemon are getting used. 
Wyverii: Still hoping for Zapdos to start running HP flying more frquently? 
eric the espeon: yea 
eric the espeon: Its very good for Oak and revvy 
eric the espeon: one of the better counters for both. Only Oak's toxic is any threat.