Revenankh Analysis (Part II) - Page 2

tennisace · Jan 3rd, 2009, 10:20:51 PM

Took me a sec to understand what you were saying; I found and fixed it.

RaikouLover · Jan 5th, 2009, 9:50:52 PM

I haven't played CAP in a long time, but when I used Rev, I went with Brick Break instead of Hammer Arm. Lowering speed isn't that bad I guess, but it was the shitty 90% accuracy I was worried about. Don't we generally list less powerful but more accurate moves with a slash?

tennisace · Jan 5th, 2009, 10:38:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat RaikouLover

I haven't played CAP in a long time, but when I used Rev, I went with Brick Break instead of Hammer Arm. Lowering speed isn't that bad I guess, but it was the shitty 90% accuracy I was worried about. Don't we generally list less powerful but more accurate moves with a slash?

Hammer Arm is pretty much superior, but I guess I can add it in Set Comments. It's not used enough for a slash.

eric the espeon · Jan 6th, 2009, 1:10:30 PM

Please can IP get some mention in Set Comments of the BU set or Other Options about its use on the BU set? If most people don't want it on the main set, fine. But it is perfectly good as an option and should be put somewhere.

There is a very short mention in Counters ("All Salamence variants should be careful of the rare Ice Punch.") but even without any mention of it on the BU set in the analysis before this point neally 10% of Revs have it. Thats not the main point though. The main reason it deservs listing is its ability to wear down some of Rev's best normal counters (Zapdos, Salamence, Dragonite, Fidgit, Celebi (more power than STAB SS), Gliscor, Crobat and Flygon are all major threats to Rev and Ice Punch is the best attack for all of them.), sure you have more trouble against frail Psychics and Gengar but SS Rev's very existance has forced the usage of most fo them down considorably.

The Pokemon you will want to use SS against in the top 30 (CaP stats):
Other Rev: But you get into a BU war and its really whoever crits first wins. SS tends to have an advantage.
Sashed Syclant: Hammer Arm still beats them if they switch into you on a BU. SS means you take less damage, both win.
Starmie: The main reason to use SS, but after 1 BU it will not do enough to stop Star from forceing you out with Psychic. Lose both ways.
Azelf: Almost always suicide leads so should not run into Revy.
Gengar: Very rare now. Shadow Ball will not 1KO unless its a Specs set anyway.
SS wins, IP will lose unless you catch it on the switch or have a few BUs.

darkie · Jan 6th, 2009, 8:37:10 PM

I agree. Ice Punch works well with Mach Punch, giving you a good move combination (Ice + Fight rocks) as well as priority. Hammer Arm still works though.

panamaxis · Jan 7th, 2009, 4:31:46 AM

I haven't really spent much time in the CAP forum, but I just noticed one thing:

Because of the speed drop

shouldn't this be, because of Revanankh's lack of speed? Because his speed isn't actually getting dropped, like when you use curse?

eric the espeon · Jan 7th, 2009, 7:16:54 AM

Darkie: Mach Punch/IP could work but I have always found the raw power in Hammer Arm pretty necessary for breaking down certain things. Even with +6/+6 its not going to be smashing through, say, Pyroak.

And pana Hammer Arm lowers speed.

Infiltrator · Jan 7th, 2009, 2:49:07 PM

I also agree with Eric besides the speed drop and raw power the also has a missing chance which could cost you sometime during a battle.

Plus · Jan 7th, 2009, 3:25:47 PM

Mach Punch and Ice Punch combos are obviously not as common as Sneak+Hammer Arm, and I think the ability to hit stuff like gengar with Shadow Sneak and the ability to actually dent steel types apart from mach punch is more valuable. However, the Mach+Ice Punch combo allows you to hit flying types a bit more efficiently. Now, flying types that would actually be hurt by Ice Punch would be Staraptor and Togekiss, both of which outspeed rev and would either ko or massively dent it anyways. Due to the fact that even with Ice Punch, Togekiss and Staraptor would still pack a shitload to rev, that's one of the reasons why I would not use that combo. I'd rather switch to a counter than hope to survive and kill with IP. Perhaps it would do well with predicted switch ins, but that's going a bit too far, I'd say. It's main selling point is definitely the ability to hit zapdos super hard, which is a pretty valuable trait.

Regarding Hammer Arm:

I'm not sure if it's just me, and I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'd trade a shitload of a punch for a mere drop in accuracy as opposed to 2 weaker moves. If I had a move with 100 BP and 95 accuracy with stab, I'd choose it over it's 95/100 acc counterpart with stab. 150>143. Safer option. Hammer Arm is the main attack of Revenankh, and is definitely part of it's main set (Shedrest with Bulk Up). If x attack missed because of a little accuracy hax, it's nonetheless still a viable option as long as the risk of using that move with less accuracy is worth it. For example, you have Hydro Pump used over Surf for many waters due to the fact that it hits a lot harder. Likewise, this is why Sneak+Hammer Arm is more common than Mach Punch+IP. It's just going to hit a lot harder and pose much more of a threat to your opponent's team.

And that's my input for now.

Umbreon Dan · Jan 9th, 2009, 12:14:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace

[SET]
name: Three Attacks
move 1: Hammer Arm
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch / Power Whip
move 4: Rest / Bulk Up
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Shed Skin
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> STAB again provides a reasonable form of offense, even without stat upping.This set has some advantages over the Bulk Up set in the extra move slot, giving much better coverage and making it more of an immediate threat. The final move can either be Ice Punch to deal with Dragon-types and Flying-types like Dragonite and Zapdos, or Power Whip to take down bulky Water and Ground-types like Vaporeon and Hippowdon. </p>

[Rest Vs. Moonlight]
<p>On most of the tanking sets both Rest+Shed Skin and Moonlight+Air Lock are valid options. Both have their equal pros and cons. With Rest, Revenankh is protected from status and can heal 100% of it's HP instantly. It also has a 51% chance of waking up earlier than usual thanks to Shed Skin. Moonlight on the other hand has the benefit of not spending a possible two turns sitting there doing nothing, possibly giving the opponent an opportunity to set up on you. Air Lock also prevents Sandstorm or Hail from wearing you down. However, generally the protection from status is better than protection from weather due to leftovers healing off the damage from weather.</p>

That's all I saw.
The set comments for Three Attacks was fairly messed up; obviously just a copying error.

And Beware the SANDSTORM OF HAIL!
:P

tennisace · Jan 9th, 2009, 4:43:27 PM

Fixed everything, added a line about Ice Punch/Mach Punch in other options because the Bulk Up set doesn't really need it in there.

Caelum · Jan 9th, 2009, 4:56:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Opinion

Ice Punch and Mach Punch can be used on the Bulk Up set to hit a lot of Revenankh's counters. Choice sets have the ability to land a few surprise kills, but as with all Choice sets they require prediction to work effectively.

This seems really out of place in the Opinion section, in particular the first sentence. It's more appropriate in Other Options.

tennisace · Jan 9th, 2009, 4:58:01 PM

Whoops I wondered why it didn't make sense... Good catch!

Caelum · Jan 9th, 2009, 5:16:39 PM

One last thing, Pursuit should at least be mentioned in Other Options (or set comments since I like it on that set but I won't push it) for the CB set to hurt some frailer things that are weak to your STAB as they attempt to switch. It's useful for switching Stratagem, Blissey, Celebi, Azelf, Starmie , Gengar etc who has no desire to stay in on you.

Jan 3rd, 2009, 10:20:51 PM	#26
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,346	Took me a sec to understand what you were saying; I found and fixed it. __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Jan 5th, 2009, 9:50:52 PM	#27
RaikouLover Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,430	I haven't played CAP in a long time, but when I used Rev, I went with Brick Break instead of Hammer Arm. Lowering speed isn't that bad I guess, but it was the shitty 90% accuracy I was worried about. Don't we generally list less powerful but more accurate moves with a slash? __________________ ImStillGood (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef) Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Brick Break / Roost

Jan 6th, 2009, 1:10:30 PM	#29
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	Please can IP get some mention in Set Comments of the BU set or Other Options about its use on the BU set? If most people don't want it on the main set, fine. But it is perfectly good as an option and should be put somewhere. There is a very short mention in Counters ("All Salamence variants should be careful of the rare Ice Punch.") but even without any mention of it on the BU set in the analysis before this point neally 10% of Revs have it. Thats not the main point though. The main reason it deservs listing is its ability to wear down some of Rev's best normal counters (Zapdos, Salamence, Dragonite, Fidgit, Celebi (more power than STAB SS), Gliscor, Crobat and Flygon are all major threats to Rev and Ice Punch is the best attack for all of them.), sure you have more trouble against frail Psychics and Gengar but SS Rev's very existance has forced the usage of most fo them down considorably. The Pokemon you will want to use SS against in the top 30 (CaP stats): Other Rev: But you get into a BU war and its really whoever crits first wins. SS tends to have an advantage. Sashed Syclant: Hammer Arm still beats them if they switch into you on a BU. SS means you take less damage, both win. Starmie: The main reason to use SS, but after 1 BU it will not do enough to stop Star from forceing you out with Psychic. Lose both ways. Azelf: Almost always suicide leads so should not run into Revy. Gengar: Very rare now. Shadow Ball will not 1KO unless its a Specs set anyway. SS wins, IP will lose unless you catch it on the switch or have a few BUs. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Jan 6th, 2009, 8:37:10 PM	#30
darkie coolcoolcool Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,361 Plano, TX	I agree. Ice Punch works well with Mach Punch, giving you a good move combination (Ice + Fight rocks) as well as priority. Hammer Arm still works though. __________________

Jan 7th, 2009, 4:31:46 AM	#31
panamaxis Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,714	I haven't really spent much time in the CAP forum, but I just noticed one thing: Because of the speed drop shouldn't this be, because of Revanankh's lack of speed? Because his speed isn't actually getting dropped, like when you use curse? __________________ <am> shes p. hot not gonna lie <am> kinda reminds me of my mum fsr ------------------------------------- <am> if its for money its not gay

Jan 7th, 2009, 7:16:54 AM	#32
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,696	Darkie: Mach Punch/IP could work but I have always found the raw power in Hammer Arm pretty necessary for breaking down certain things. Even with +6/+6 its not going to be smashing through, say, Pyroak. And pana Hammer Arm lowers speed. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Jan 7th, 2009, 2:49:07 PM	#33
Infiltrator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,006 infiltrating smogon....	I also agree with Eric besides the speed drop and raw power the also has a missing chance which could cost you sometime during a battle. __________________ Previously know as The_Hybrid Server Shoddy username: Hybrid, Infiltrator.

Jan 7th, 2009, 3:25:47 PM	#34
Plus EAT A DICK Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 956 New Jersey	Mach Punch and Ice Punch combos are obviously not as common as Sneak+Hammer Arm, and I think the ability to hit stuff like gengar with Shadow Sneak and the ability to actually dent steel types apart from mach punch is more valuable. However, the Mach+Ice Punch combo allows you to hit flying types a bit more efficiently. Now, flying types that would actually be hurt by Ice Punch would be Staraptor and Togekiss, both of which outspeed rev and would either ko or massively dent it anyways. Due to the fact that even with Ice Punch, Togekiss and Staraptor would still pack a shitload to rev, that's one of the reasons why I would not use that combo. I'd rather switch to a counter than hope to survive and kill with IP. Perhaps it would do well with predicted switch ins, but that's going a bit too far, I'd say. It's main selling point is definitely the ability to hit zapdos super hard, which is a pretty valuable trait. Regarding Hammer Arm: I'm not sure if it's just me, and I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'd trade a shitload of a punch for a mere drop in accuracy as opposed to 2 weaker moves. If I had a move with 100 BP and 95 accuracy with stab, I'd choose it over it's 95/100 acc counterpart with stab. 150>143. Safer option. Hammer Arm is the main attack of Revenankh, and is definitely part of it's main set (Shedrest with Bulk Up). If x attack missed because of a little accuracy hax, it's nonetheless still a viable option as long as the risk of using that move with less accuracy is worth it. For example, you have Hydro Pump used over Surf for many waters due to the fact that it hits a lot harder. Likewise, this is why Sneak+Hammer Arm is more common than Mach Punch+IP. It's just going to hit a lot harder and pose much more of a threat to your opponent's team. And that's my input for now. __________________ Last edited by Plus; Jan 7th, 2009 at 3:30:52 PM.

Jan 9th, 2009, 4:43:27 PM	#36
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,346	Fixed everything, added a line about Ice Punch/Mach Punch in other options because the Bulk Up set doesn't really need it in there. __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Jan 9th, 2009, 4:58:01 PM	#38
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,346	Whoops I wondered why it didn't make sense... Good catch! __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Jan 9th, 2009, 5:16:39 PM	#39
Caelum qibz official stalker Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,656 good question	One last thing, Pursuit should at least be mentioned in Other Options (or set comments since I like it on that set but I won't push it) for the CB set to hurt some frailer things that are weak to your STAB as they attempt to switch. It's useful for switching Stratagem, Blissey, Celebi, Azelf, Starmie , Gengar etc who has no desire to stay in on you.