Regarding the CAP Server

[speedwobbles225]

I have been in the server twice in the past 2 weeks, both times there were ~15 people and I was unable to find a game. But Eric's tip helps.

[ferron]

ive been wondering about that. on the CaP server it seems like you never get a match when you try and find. should we just challenge?

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat ferron

ive been wondering about that. on the CaP server it seems like you never get a match when you try and find. should we just challenge?

If you click find match and after a minute or two there's nobody on, ask in the main chat for someone to go on the find tab. There's always someone up for a battle!

[Bobtheball4]

i always get a match >_> unless its night time

[Infiltrator]

I agree with Bob. Me and Mag have been battling it out to be in the top five... me and Mag just kept on making teams(mostly me) because we each had teams to counter each others team and we never get bored of battling the same person.. the same applies with Cyber and Bob and a few other regulars.

[Bobtheball4]

well, i quit trying to get to the top, if it wasnt for mag, id still be in top 5

[Time Mage]

Well, I don't have much time anymore to battle (specially since I like to think my teams well, and last time I played I fought eric with a truly outdated Pyroak team :P), but I find the "Be Away, contributing to fill the server" part doable by me. I'll try to do at least that whenever possible... And maybe, getting a battle or two meanwhile.

[Infiltrator]

Originally Posted by Fat Frosty

The main reason people don't come in the server is that it is VERY hard to get a battle going there and I am not sure if the lack of battles is solely a result of the lack of battlers. For example, I am on the server right now and there are about 24 players (4 of them being busy) and there is only one battle going on as we speak (mine). Only 1 battle with 20 active players around. Weird huh?


I agree with tennis that more people should get on the server and playtest the pokes. But it is hard to playtest any poke if no one is battling. So I'd like to ask the people who DO come in often to play some games instead of just chatting. Otherwise you are killing the point of having a server on shoddy in the first place (instead of having an IRC Channel). But that is my opinion.

I agree with Frosty completely.. he made a good point... if there was more people on the server there would be more battles going on and more palytesting being done...So i also agree with Tennis that more poeple should go on the server and playtest.

[DougJustDoug**]

I just linked the CAP Metagame Guide into the reference sticky.

The guide is REALLY GOOD! For anyone wanting a "one-stop shop" summary of the CAP metagame -- that's the place to go. I wish we could figure out a way to make the guide more visible to newcomers to the server. I suppose the upcoming CAP website will go a long way in that regard.

Anyway -- a huge "Thank you" to SkarmBlissCounter and all the writers that contributed to making the CAP Metagame Guide. I think it will be very helpful for encouraging server participation.

[Infiltrator]

Hmmm Doug how about posting it in the Welcome Message.. but since no-one really checks the welcome message there might be no point unless the regulars tell them to check it =/... but we can't still try.

EDIT:should be temporary until CAP website is up is up.

[Bobtheball4]

if youre gonna put it in welcome message, yo gotta make it fat and big and appeasing to the eye, otherwise, no one will read it :( and like captains server, some will lie about reading it >_>

[Yllnath]

I've been on the CAP server a few times, but I can't say it's working out for me. Living in GMT+1 and having to start at work at 8 AM, I can stay up late enough to see the USA coming online. I've actually been alone on the server a couple of times and sometimes, there were a few people away. I also can't stay online entire days (I shutdown my PC when I'm not behind it, having to pay my own bills and stuff). I've only came online twice when other people were around, in the weekend. The first time, I could actually battle the two or three people around. Even though it was against the same people and even the same teams, I was still using CAPs and so were the others so I was still getting a feel for my team. That's still a lot better than not battling at all. The other time was the most annoying though, with people online and not away, but no battles taking place, the chat being dead and no one responding to a find battle. I'm not likely to go query all the people desperately looking for a battle. If I can't find anything, I go do other stuff.

So yeah, I know that the general attitude of just leaving if no one is online is counter-productive, but just going online and then going afk is just as bad IMO. If the server is empty, at least then I know I'm not getting a battle. If I see a few people, wait around for 10 minutes and then realize the same thing, I'm more dissappointed then when the server is empty.

Anyway, I'll still try do join on weekends (it seems I will never find people on weekdays due to my timezone), but getting involved on the server isn't as easy as just logging on and start having fun.

[sbc]

the best thing to do in that instance is to ask in the main chat. 9/10 someone will respond.

[Infiltrator]

Tennis i have got to say since this discussion started I've seen more people attending the server. This thread has helped alot for the server.

[eric the espeon]

True Hybrid, I have seen ~8 people on at times when there is normally just me and HAL, maybe with one AFK guy. And the great thing is those people that are are often not AFK!

[ferron]

You have to realize that some people back this much how others would back fantasy sports teams. its the idea of using the base rules of something and seeing how it can be manipulated.

also, i happen to like the difference in the metagame since i sometimes tire of some pokes on OU. at least this is an alternative.

[Estranged]

Originally Posted by Fat ferron

also, i happen to like the difference in the metagame since i sometimes tire of some pokes on OU. at least this is an alternative.

The same thing goes for me. I like the different metagame that CAP has to offer since I got tired of the standard OU metagame. In the CAP server battling is a lot more fun because I feel the battles are more relaxed and winning isn't as important as it would be, if both players were laddering in the smogon server, for example.
My only problem is that its already around 10PM when the server starts filling up and finding battles gets easyer, but on weekends its not a problem.

[cyberzero]

I believe the lack of battling at the CAP server is the lack of accessibility to battling. The only way to find a battle reliably is to use the ladder - which is heavily outclassed by Smogon University's ladder in terms of variety and waiting time. The majority of us go on that ladder to have our battles instead.

Many people have said stated that they can't find battles. If you can't battle, you can't playtest the CAPs. If you DO find a battle, it will be repetitive against the same people or the same teams over and over again. A solution to this could be the revival of the MT Leaderboard. Recently, Bass, our Tournament Director, decided to scrap the MT Leaderboard with very good reason, as the ladder was healthy and Tournaments were in decline.

Now, there's a different scenario. The ladder has been used to the point that we can have people saying this:

Originally Posted by Fat Magmortified

HAL9000: 1. MAGMORTIFIED (1,564.12)*
HAL9000: 2. PLUS (1,556.55)*
HAL9000: 3. BEEJ (1,546.51)*
HAL9000: 4. SHAQFORTIFIED (1,543.62)*
HAL9000: 5. BRAGBORTIFIED (1,520.31)*

My point is that many people don't ladder anymore because they can't get to the top anymore. I think that bringing the MT Leaderboard back will heavily increase chances to playtest, as many people who regulate the server are only there for chatting purposes, myself included. The Mini Tournaments are announced in the main chat, so it would bring attention to the battlers and undoubtedly have more battles going on the server.

This will also increase the diversity of Pokemon and make statistics for the CAP server more accurate. The MT matches are of course Unrated battles, but most people just go on the ladder for a battle, not for ranking purposes, therefore many gimmick, flavor, and theme teams ruin the stats. People generally use their best OU teams for the MTs, which would be a better representation of the CAP OU metagame.

[Captain]

Rating-wise the CaP ladder is infinitely nicer than the smogon U ladder. Why exactly would be best explained through Beej, Plus, or Magmortified and on top of that I'm lazy.

But even then I'm somewhat apathetic to the ladder on the CaP server. But many people aren't going to worry about their scores as much as they'll worry about getting a quick match. During some time in the past, The MTs were great in that they could get matches relatively quickly and there was no drawback to participation.Now, the leaderboard is gone so MTs are less attractive than ever. At the same time the ladder is terribly, terribly unbalanced as shown by cyberzero. MTs are engaging they draw in people. Meanwhile our laddering is boring. I can guess who I will face on the ladder based on the time of day and who is on the server. It doesn't feel unique or engaging, it's repetitive in a BAD way.

I would really really like my scoreboard back. I don't care if it's not as accurate or fast as the ladder. The old MT system encourages participation in a way the ladder can't do.

Beej: The reason why MTs are engaging in the first place is because they're events and people will make predictions/watch the battles/speculate further.

[Infiltrator]

I agree with Captain and Cyber. The return of the MT leaderboard would be helpful and more playtesting can be done also since there are more people participating on the server this would be a great idea to revive the MT leaderboard and would also be easier, I gave up on reaching top 5 since Magmortified has it in control and I'm at rank 6 so i see no point in continuing to outclass Mag in the top. The MT leaderboard on the other hand was more fun and easier. So I would support the idea of reviving the MT leaderboard.

[tennisace]

Errrr no. Ladders are the only way to gather statistics, which is what we need if we expect to have a stable metagame and accurate predictions. Just because something is "more fun" and "easier" doesn't mean it's what we need right now. We need people laddering so we can see where our metagame is at. Unless, of course, someone wants to write down all the data the ladder records manually.

About getting a quick match: MTs are no quicker than the ladder, considering you have to make pairings, and the fact that if there are no MTs people inevitably ladder anyway.

[Magmortified]

The "I don't try because I can't beat XX on the leaderboard" excuse is a very poor one. Remember SoT and the MT leaderboard?

Like tennis said: MT battles cannot be expected to get reliable statiscal data. The unrated battles are lumped in with the clusterfuck of random, uber, UU, etc. battles that are also going on. Meanwhile, people are drawn away from the most reliable source of data: the ladder. And just as much playtesting is getting done on a ladder match as there is in a MT battle.

We recently used ladder statistics to determine the basis for what Arghonaut should be doing. If we're using stats for something important like that, I want the data to be as reliable as possible. I'm not against Mini Tournies entirely, I just don't think they should be our focus here. And if the ladder is stale, that just emphasizes the problem: Not enough people are going on CAP.

[cyberzero]

I only mentioned that the CAP regulars tend to use more competitive teams in Tourney matches rather than the ladder, I didn't mean that it would be the primary source of information.

My only concern is that people have been complaining about the lack of battles - why not give them some? MTs have been an engaging part of the server, and it would certainly allow the people that this thread draws in to have a chance to playtest these Pokemon.

I didn't want this to become a "Let's bring back the MT Leaderboard!" shitstorm, this was honestly for CAP's best interest. I sincerely thought that since we were having more people coming and since we're going to have a huge spike due to Arghonaut, we would be able to keep these people here by engaging them with MTs.

[Bass]

What the hell is going on here? Are you guys really asking for the MT Scoreboard to come back after I explicitly deleted it quite recently for several reasons? Captain's and Hybrid's posts irk me in particular, as they both hinted at ulterior motives for bringing the scoreboard back. I will take it up with them privately, as I do not want this topic to go off track.

I am not going to go through this again, as I posted all of my reasons for deleting the scoreboard in the MT Workshop thread, but I guess I did not spell this out clearly enough. There is absolutely no evidence that bringing the scoreboard back would encourage more participation. All of the logic that supports this holds no water, and is merely based off of assumptions. If anything, it encourages less consistent participation because your name is permanently on it, whereas the ladder requires you to be consistently active. Yes, Magmortified currently has three alts in the top 5, but so what? imperfectluck had five alts in the top 5 of the Smogon server standard ladder at one point, but obviously that doesn't mean that there is little incentive to participate, it means that you have a lot of time on your hands.

MTs were one of my favorite things about the CAP server and were arguably what got me to stay, but many things have changed since then. I would prefer if we keep MT discussions out of this thread.

[Cartoons!]

Just because something is "more fun" and "easier" doesn't mean it's what we need right now.

What we need is whatever will open us up to a larger pool of players. We could gather up all the data the CAP metagame has to offer, but how meaningful would that be if there was no one around to play it?

I know the CAP's mission statement states that this is primarily an educational project, but most people who battle on Shoddy just want to have fun and don't really care about our goals (and really, why should they?). Whatever it takes to make CAP appear more fun and inviting to new members, I'm all for; and if anything, it'll make data mining more accurate and valuable.

On that note, are there any plans to include a forum on the upcoming CAP website? The current board is a little cramped and it might encourage more people to play if we could be less stingy with our space and have sections where people can post their thoughts, warstories, tournaments or whatever.

edit: tennis: awesome!