New DPP Tier Lists

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat 12345

NU Comments:

Well, first off, Regice becomes the only Pokemon to jump from OU to NU ever.

Regice was never OU in D/P, so I believe you're considering older generations, so... There's Tauros. His fall from grace was even worse, because he was kind of a "god" in RBY.

[Goodbar]

Thanks sir X-Act. I find it pretty funny that one time Pinsir was banned from UU, and now it can't even make the list lol. NU list is surprisingly filled with pretty decent pokemon, I could imagine it getting sliced in half (rarely used??)

[Syberia]

NU looks like it might be shaping up to be a lot like old UU, minus the "circle jerk of stall," (hard to do that without Froslass, Clefable, and Steelix) as it's been so eloquently put.

[petrie911]

Originally Posted by Fat 1059860

@ Zarator: Clamperl isn't fully evolved anyways.
@ X-Act: Thanks for the update.
@ Community: Marowak in NU feels like Garchomp in OU, which people at least have to build a few things around it to keep themselves alive from that thing.... I think. Any comments?

Marowak is really slow, though, and a Grass/Ice/Water attack with STAB or good special attack will do massive damage. He's really not all that different from Rampardos, who has a better ability, learns Rock Polish, and doesn't need to take up and item slot to have massive attack. Oh, and Rampardos is faster, too. And then there's Medicham, who's faster than both and more powerful and durable than Rampardos, and Slaking, who is more durable and faster than all of them, and only slightly weaker.

Hmm...there's a lot of really high attack scores running around NU, now that I think about it. Intimidaters would be welcome. Tangrowth and Leafeon have great defense scores and Ground resists, so I can see them being popular tanks.

[Tangerine]

edit: Looking at the list (thanks Zarator), there are a LOT of pokemon who were "formerly BL" who are now in NU (Ramparados, Entei, Pinser, etc. etc.), while most of the good "formerly UU" pokes are still UU (Clefable, Steelix, [Scyther!? really??]).

That just serves to make me think even more that "old UU" was really screwed up. xD

That's a really narrow way of thinking... not to mention completely wrong considering you miss the idea of competitive play... you're essentially undermining everyone who ever played old UU with that phrase.

Old UU was different from New UU is how you should look at it. It's a completely different metagame so I'm curious why you're comparing banlists - depending on the Pokemon and Players available, you'll end up with different ideas of what is broken. To say the old UU was "screwed up" because the banlist and the metagame was completely different from new UU... I'll let you figure that one out yourself since hopefully you're capable of doing so.

[Wilson]

Originally Posted by Fat Arael

Regice was never OU in D/P, so I believe you're considering older generations, so... There's Tauros. His fall from grace was even worse, because he was kind of a "god" in RBY.

Wasn't Tangrowth OU during D/P? He was pretty good for a time iirc

[Heysup]

Originally Posted by Fat Tangerine

That's a really narrow way of thinking... not to mention completely wrong considering you miss the idea of competitive play... you're essentially undermining everyone who ever played old UU with that phrase.

Old UU was different from New UU is how you should look at it. It's a completely different metagame so I'm curious why you're comparing banlists - depending on the Pokemon and Players available, you'll end up with different ideas of what is broken. To say the old UU was "screwed up" because the banlist and the metagame was completely different from new UU... I'll let you figure that one out yourself since hopefully you're capable of doing so.

Actually I sort of understand his point, as I played old UU alot when it was around.

He was trying to say that commonly used Pokemon in "new" UU, such as Clefable, Steelix and mostly Froslass were in old UU, and there were none of these "BL" Pokemon to balance out the tier, which was true, and many of those Pokemon (mainly Froslass, imo), made the tier a little "messed up". And that isnt too far from the truth, imo.

[Ally of Justice]

To me it seems this new UU consist of all the old BL Poke'mon plus some of the commonly used old UU Poke'mon.

And NU is the old UU list plus Medicham and a few other wtf Poke'mon. NU seems most promising.

Yanmega in UU doesn't really affect me personally because I don't think its going to really affect that metagame too much.




But those are my thoughts.

[Tarquin]

I am surprised to see Wallrein in NU. i am assuming it just had really bad usage figuires, but I think my fellow OU players and I can attest to the fact that one false move against a hail team with Stallrein in can just be GG. It;s also hard to prevent Wallrein setting up with something like Salamence's Draco Meteor, so I don't know how NU teams will manage. Maybe I'll watch a few battles and get some tips on how to beat this potent stalling threat.

I hope Yanmega moving to UU will lessen it;s use in OU even more, I think once it sets up it's hatefully powerful even in OU.

I will be interested to see how UU reacts to Yanmega, I hope it won't overcentralize (sp?)

Wasn't Tangrowth OU during D/P? He was pretty good for a time iirc

I thought so too lol, I could be a tank of a grass type and great with Sunny Day coverage.

[Objection]

Don't forget that Abomasnow has been moved to Limbo.

[zarator]

Originally Posted by Fat Tangerine

That's a really narrow way of thinking... not to mention completely wrong considering you miss the idea of competitive play... you're essentially undermining everyone who ever played old UU with that phrase.

Old UU was different from New UU is how you should look at it. It's a completely different metagame so I'm curious why you're comparing banlists - depending on the Pokemon and Players available, you'll end up with different ideas of what is broken. To say the old UU was "screwed up" because the banlist and the metagame was completely different from new UU... I'll let you figure that one out yourself since hopefully you're capable of doing so.

Someone already sort of explained it, but since I supported him I may very well post my opinion too. Actually, the UU tier wasn't screwed up because it was unbalanced. It was screwed because things have been banned unneccessarily from it. Lets suppose, for instance, that we put - say - Yanmega, Electivire, Kingdra and Donphan in the Uber tier. Obviously the OU tier would be still balanced, but we nonetheless "screwed it up" (i.e. deviating it from what would have naturally been like) making a wrong guesswork.
Hope this was clearer, and forgive us if that offended the feelings of someone, in a way or the another

Originally Posted by Fat 1059860

@ Zarator: Clamperl isn't fully evolved anyways.
@ X-Act: Thanks for the update.
@ Community: Marowak in NU feels like Garchomp in OU, which people at least have to build a few things around it to keep themselves alive from that thing.... I think. Any comments?

Thanks, I fixed it up, but a NU thread has already been started, so my list is no longer useful (not that it was that useful before^^)

[diinbong]

Originally Posted by Fat HeYsUp

He was trying to say that commonly used Pokemon in "new" UU, such as Clefable, Steelix and mostly Froslass were in old UU, and there were none of these "BL" Pokemon to balance out the tier, which was true, and many of those Pokemon (mainly Froslass, imo), made the tier a little "messed up". And that isnt too far from the truth, imo.

They're two very different metagames.

The reason for these Pokemon's usage in nUU didn't have anything to do with their high performance in UU, or nothing to do with their overall performance in general. They all just found specific niches the in new tier; Steelix could counter Raikou while also other Physical hard hitters, Froslass' performance was enhanced with Abomasnow, etc. In 'old UU' these specifics were inexistent and therefore, so was their high usage in comparison to the the more powerful BL Pokemon.

ie; the old UU being "screwed up" had nothing to do with the Pokemon in it, but rather, the Pokemon not.

[Chou Toshio]

Originally Posted by Fat Tangerine

That's a really narrow way of thinking... not to mention completely wrong considering you miss the idea of competitive play... you're essentially undermining everyone who ever played old UU with that phrase.

Old UU was different from New UU is how you should look at it. It's a completely different metagame so I'm curious why you're comparing banlists - depending on the Pokemon and Players available, you'll end up with different ideas of what is broken. To say the old UU was "screwed up" because the banlist and the metagame was completely different from new UU... I'll let you figure that one out yourself since hopefully you're capable of doing so.

First off, if you don't remember I played old UU, extensively and was quite involved up until the point where we really started getting the plans off to drop the BL pokes. I had lots of discussions and mutual respect with Shiny Oddish, Cynthia, Age of Kings, etc. etc., who by the way haven't been around in ages for whatever reason.

And no, it's not just a matter of "difference." Pokes that were banned from UU based totally on theorymon (entei, ramparados, pinser, etc.) have now been proven to be less useful competitively than pokes that were allowed in the tier (froslass, rotom, steelix, clefable, etc.). That to me, is quite a distinct indicator that our methods for creating the old UU were ineffectual, and created a rather warped tier.

And you could see it in play near the end-- practically every team was looking to set up SR + Spikes + Toxic Spikes + Status 3-4 of the enemy pokes + rapid spin + block with 2 different ghosts (yeah, froslass and rotom were gods). I am exhagerating a bit, but I think it's fair to say that the benefit from actually attacking was so low (the offensive pokes so weak) that there was little point in actually attacking (unless you were absol, in which case nothing could stop you after platinum, but you were still gonna die in 1-2 turns and you were kinda a one man show).

I'm not saying the people who made Old UU were stupid (contrary, they were quite intelligent overall, and some I'd say very much so), but that doesn't change the fact that all the theorymonning created a tier that, looking at the usage stats we have now, does not make sense.

Yes, in a way you can say "it's just because the tiers were different," because pokemon usage is affected by what's available. IE Eruption Entei might have ripped through old UU (though I doubt it), but can't do so through new UU because of Chansey. That example was totally imagined up there, but the point is yeah-- pokemon usefulness also depends on what's around them so in a way "you can't compare the tiers because they're fundamentally different."

But it's not completely about environment. There's also the individual abilities of each pokemon. Scizor is the king of OU and that's every bit as much because its offensive abilities are really impressive, as it is about the fact it can 1hko A, B and C under conditions D. I think a couple of pokes to demonstrate this point really well recently are Lucario and Wobbuffet. Environmentally speaking, everyone up until this point thought of them as really unimpressive in Ubers, but the abilities that they actually have was shown to be really powerful in practice. Inversely, it's been a historical idea that Pinser never got any use in OU just because it was outclassed so badly by Heracross. In practice though, even without heracross around Pinser still isn't UU-- which indicates something about Pinser itself (lol, SR weak!).

In the same way, the fact that Clefable was a top UU before, and still is a top UU now while pokes who were banned are falling to NU, I think that speaks a lot for Clefable.

[jrrrrrrr]

Guys keep in mind that this is only the first tier list for UU....we haven't really gotten a chance to completely explore the metagame. I know that I've only used like 20 pokemon tops on the UU ladder so far, so I know I haven't discovered everything. The tier list is probably going to grow a lot next time.

Also, Yanmega just seems insane. I don't think it will last in UU for very long.

[1059860]

Originally Posted by Fat petrie911

Marowak is really slow, though, and a Grass/Ice/Water attack with STAB or good special attack will do massive damage. He's really not all that different from Rampardos, who has a better ability, learns Rock Polish, and doesn't need to take up and item slot to have massive attack. Oh, and Rampardos is faster, too. And then there's Medicham, who's faster than both and more powerful and durable than Rampardos, and Slaking, who is more durable and faster than all of them, and only slightly weaker.

Hmm...there's a lot of really high attack scores running around NU, now that I think about it. Intimidaters would be welcome. Tangrowth and Leafeon have great defense scores and Ground resists, so I can see them being popular tanks.

It's called Baton Pass & Rock Polish or Agility?

Plus, how can they possibly be putting things like Rampardos, Slaking, Tauros, Tangrowth, and Lickilicky in the tier as Ledian, Ariados, Wormadam, Luvdisc and Pachirisu?

[locopoke]

Originally Posted by Fat M Dragon

Can somebody explain me why marowak, venomoth, pinsir, medicham and tauros are NU?
Yanmega UU?
It just makes no sense

I was in the process of typing up the same exact thing before I read your reply. Yanmeega in UU, and Medicham, Tauros, Mawrowak, Venomoth and Pinsir in NU makes no sense at all.

[Objection]

Originally Posted by Fat locopoke

I was in the process of typing up the same exact thing before I read your reply. Yanmeega in UU, and Medicham, Tauros, Mawrowak, Venomoth and Pinsir in NU makes no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense. People weren't using them because they didn't see how they could be more useful to them than the other possible options, so they dropped from the higher usage tiers to the lower usage tiers.

[petrie911]

Originally Posted by Fat 1059860

It's called Baton Pass & Rock Polish or Agility?

Plus, how can they possibly be putting things like Rampardos, Slaking, Tauros, Tangrowth, and Lickilicky in the tier as Ledian, Ariados, Wormadam, Luvdisc and Pachirisu?

Yeah, BPing Rock Polish or Agility...you can do it in every tier. Dual Screens might help get the pass off, but there's this little move called Brick Break that gets rid of screens. And it's not like it's not going to be exceedingly obvious what you're doing.

Besides, nothing says NU has to be the last tier. We can make another balanced tier with the current NUs, call it Rarely Used or something, and leave the rest for NU. At that point, you should be pretty much down to your worthless pokemon and NFEs.

[Karen~]

Smeargle fanboys will be happy with this ._.

One in and one out, i was expecting a new revamp of the entire OU tier.

[Dark-Ryu]

Finally the new tiers.
Two questions:
What do you mean with Rotom-A?
and, is there going to be a BL Tier again?

[Zoro]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark-Ryu

Finally the new tiers.
Two questions:
What do you mean with Rotom-A?
and, is there going to be a BL Tier again?

A = Appliances = Every Rotom

afaik, there wont be such a thing as BL tier again, BL will ( I think ? ) just contain the Pkm that are said to be too strong for UU.

[LoveDensity]

Originally Posted by Fat Karen~

Smeargle fanboys will be happy with this ._.

One in and one out, i was expecting a new revamp of the entire OU tier.

Fanboy! Fanboy here! After reading this whole thread, I like the notion people mentioning it. It makes me jump ^_^. The only bad thing is I can't use it in UU anymore x.x

[X-Act]

Rotom-A means Rotom-Appliance, which is one of Rotom-C, Rotom-F, Rotom-H, Rotom-S or Rotom-W.

And yes, there will be a BL list. However, I have little to do with it, just as I have little to do with the Uber list - the voters will shape up those two tiers.

[Objection]

I actually prefer it when pokemon I like to use in battle that actually work remain in UU. That way, I can use them in OU play and surprise my opponents, who are often unable to deal with such threats as Curse Umbreon, bulky Moltres and Sub Punch Hariyama.

[StarmanXL]

Wait, Slowbro made UU and Slowking didn't? What the hell? Is 80 Def that bad?