Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - March 2009

[Matthew]

Oh whoops, forgot Life Orb

[sbc]

Originally Posted by Fat Haunterfan

Add a life orb and you have a good chance of OHKO (86.03% - 101.25%) with SR on the field. I believe he just wanted to say that Swampert isn't a good switch into Salamece.

Well what exactly does take a mence outrage easily? Swampert is merely a Mence check, hopefully SR is up early then you force it to Outrage and usually live to Ice Beam it or if you die you make it easy pickings for your revenge killer. That's pretty much the only way to handle mence anyway.

[Jibaku*]

Add a life orb and you have a good chance of OHKO (86.03% - 101.25%) with SR on the field

Not necessarily a good chance to OHKO after SR I think- assuming Swampert is the one that switches to Mence during the DD turn, Lefties will heal the SR damage by the end of the turn, and Mence's chance of OHKOing becomes much less.

[Haunter**]

Originally Posted by Fat sbc

Well what exactly does take a mence outrage easily? Swampert is merely a Mence check, hopefully SR is up early then you force it to Outrage and usually live to Ice Beam it or if you die you make it easy pickings for your revenge killer. That's pretty much the only way to handle mence anyway.

Yeah, obviously only few steels can survive a DD life orb'd Outrage, my point was that you can't define "counter" a pokemon which risks an ohko when switching into the threat it's supposed to counter.

[LoveDensity]

Originally Posted by Fat Haunterfan

Yeah, obviously only few steels can survive a DD life orb'd Outrage, my point was that you can't define "counter" a pokemon which risks an ohko when switching into the threat it's supposed to counter.

I don't think anyone mentioned Swampert as a "counter" to Salamence, just a check. But other than that, your point is correct.

[malomyotismon]

frotress is the mon for aking an outrage on demand and it can blow in mences face afterwards, skmory come close to wirlwind away that d d boost but won't be hurting mence anytime soon. Best bet would be to revenge kill mence with something like weavile or mamoswine, out rage is powerful but it dose prevent mence from switching out.

[Zepar]

Originally Posted by Fat malomyotismon

frotress is the mon for aking an outrage on demand and it can blow in mences face afterwards, skmory come close to wirlwind away that d d boost but won't be hurting mence anytime soon. Best bet would be to revenge kill mence with something like weavile or mamoswine, out rage is powerful but it dose prevent mence from switching out.

That isn't countering for 1 It did its job by taking out a Poke(?)mon and 2 it was just a tribute to Salamence not a "counter" so why don't you just send in some Lucario that failed to sweep?

I don't think anyone mentioned Swampert as a "counter" to Salamence, just a check. But other than that, your point is correct.

It isn't even a "check" because 3/4 Sets (Fatmence, Specsmence, DDMence, and 4/252 Naive mixmence) can OHKO or 2HKO before it can attack.

Yeah, obviously only few steels can survive a DD life orb'd Outrage

Every steel in OU, barring Lucario, can take one. Yes i'm including 12/12 Empoleon.

Empoleon can take a 1+ EQ

It does 100.00% - 118.18%

[Random Pizzaman]

Speaking of Empoleon, a defensive one is a good counter being able to take +1 EQ i believe, and OHKOing with Ice Beam

[LoveDensity]

Originally Posted by Fat Paranoid212

It isn't even a "check" because 3/4 Sets (Fatmence, Specsmence, DDMence, and 4/252 Naive mixmence) can OHKO or 2HKO before it can attack.

Aren't you the guy that bashed on Swampert? Fatmence can be dealt with the common Roar that Swampert holds. If it doesn't hold Roar, you should have at least another thing to deal with FatMence. SpecsMence isnt that common these days which makes it a surprise for alot of Phy. Walls. Mixmence is harder to switch in as it is a wallbreaker set after all. MixMence 2ohkos Swampert with Draco Meteor at about the same damage as DD LO Outrage. If you can get Swampert in with about 82% HP, your pretty safe to survive a Draco Meteor and OHKO it with Ice Beam. I would call that a check at some point wouldn't you? Also the talk was about DD Mence, not other sets. Sbc said this perfectly that Swampert is a check:

Originally Posted by Fat sbc

Well what exactly does take a mence outrage easily? Swampert is merely a Mence check, hopefully SR is up early then you force it to Outrage and usually live to Ice Beam it or if you die you make it easy pickings for your revenge killer. That's pretty much the only way to handle mence anyway.

[Camden]

Porygon2's still lurking around the high 50's. Come on, Porygon2, just a little bit more! Hey, it's not useless. I enjoy how it doesn't have to worry about getting OHKO'd by Ice Beam, or getting crushed by SR.

[Ace Trainer Link]

Wow cb scizor really overtook sd scizor since platinum came out, why am I the only one that uses the sd set :(

[pkmn1000]

I use it sometime but cb scizor is primarioly used as a hit and run since latias and magnezone can pwn scizor and choice band does good damage without setup or recoil. However if you scarf a salamence it should overtake any non scarfed latias and really beat it up with a stab outrage. it almost ohkoed once like 98% :(

[mtr]

The issue is that you have to try hard to make sure that an SD Scizor isn't an inferior Lucario, who has better and stronger attacks, elemental punches, and a Fighting STAB (and Close Combat), not to mention the potential to disrupt an opponent by using a special set. Scizor's primary strength is around the "switch game" with Bullet Punch and U-turn (and Pursuit to a lesser extent). Basically, Scizor is a one trick pony. Use him or use someone else.

If you want an SD LO set...Lucario
If you want a Agility/Scarf set...Metagross
If you want a screen support set...Bronzong/Metagross

Legacy Raider reported some success with a bulky SD lefties Scizor set in an RMT, though. It may be worth looking into.

[Thorns]

The advance trio are ruling Ubers again. What a shame. 71 usages of Exeggutor? That's lower than Luxray! Let's boost that a bit. And guys, don't run Solarbeam, Grass Knot is better.

also stop running max hp on scizor aaa 1/4 of scizors are 'sr weak'

[mtr]

Originally Posted by Fat Thorns

also stop running max hp on scizor aaa 1/4 of scizors are 'sr weak'

What do you mean by 'sr weak'? I know that you're going for a metaphor, but I don't get it.

Don't ladder much on Ubers myself, but I haven't seen any Exeggutors around.

Anyways,

| Kyogre | Item | Choice Specs | 42.8 |
| Kyogre | Item | Choice Scarf | 30.1 |

Come on people, Scarf and Specs Kyogre aren't the only things that are hot shit, especially not when every team worth it's salt has a check or even two for them. That thing is like the CB Scizor of Ubers at this point.

[paramylodon]

Max hp on scizor gives you a stealth rock number. This means you take 1 extra damage from stealth rock. Switch it in once and you would have the same much hp left as you would had you moved those 4 hp evs to defense/special defense (and then you'd therefore take hits slightly worse). Switch it in again and you now actually have less hp.
There is a thread on this.

As for the "cb scizor of ubers": much worse then that actually, as over 50% of teams run kyogre!

EDIT:
Scizor and luke do the same thing with SD (except scizor is bulkier and can roost to, but hits less hard with all the non-priority attacks), allowing you to utilize the "soften and sweep" strategy by running both. One softens the counters before being sacraficed, allowing the other to succesfully sweep.

[mtr]

Originally Posted by Fat paramylodon

As for the "cb scizor of ubers": much worse then that actually, as over 50% of teams run kyogre!

Yeah, I meant that so much of the metagame centralizes around Kyogre as the OU one does around Scizor (I mean, how many Azelfs, Gengars, and Weaviles do you see any more? Scizor turned things bulky), but it is way even worse in Ubers if stuff like Quagsire is getting a fair hearing.

[pkmn1000]

kyorgre isnt that bad use a wobuffet since 90% of the time hell use a special move so you can mc or encore a cm

[adman2]

Originally Posted by Fat mtr12

Yeah, I meant that so much of the metagame centralizes around Kyogre as the OU one does around Scizor (I mean, how many Azelfs, Gengars, and Weaviles do you see any more? Scizor turned things bulky), but it is way even worse in Ubers if stuff like Quagsire is getting a fair hearing.

I can only speak for Wifi, really, but your examples are strange to me. Azelf is a common suicide lead with its fast Taunt, Stealth Rock, and Explosion. Gengar, though outclassed by Rotom-A, still has his uses on Wifi, as does Dusknoir due to the lack of said Rotom. Weavile. . .well, you've beaten me there. I don't see a whole lot of those. Scizor, though very much OU, does not quite reach Kyogre levels (over 50% of teams?!).

On another note, who uses physical Jynx and Alakazam anyway? It's probably the same person that uses Moltres in Ubers despite the presence of Ho-oh.

[paramylodon]

Gengar is not at all outclassed by rotom-a.
Gengar still has a monstrous special attack stat and possesses blistering speed (both stats equivalent to that of latios).

Originally Posted by Fat auramaster

Rotom-A was used 56,118 times, which puts him 15th, behind Gengar.

Rotom-a has its own uses and is very good overall. However, you can't say gengar has disappeared (or has been outclassed by rotom) while it is still sitting at spot #12, although as I understand this was a dramatic decrease.

Rotom primarilly outclassed all of the bulky ghosts; if you want an offensive sweeper most people still (as the stats prove) turn to gengar and it's 24 greater base speed and 25 greater base special attack.

EDIT:
Although yes, many have stated before that scizor led to the rise of bulky offense teams (and gengar's fall to "only" 12th).

[adman2]

Originally Posted by Fat paramylodon

Gengar is not at all outclassed by rotom-a.
Gengar still has a monstrous special attack stat and possesses blistering speed (both stats equivalent to that of latios).



Rotom-a has its own uses and is very good overall. However, you can't say gengar has disappeared (or has been outclassed by rotom) while it is still sitting at spot #12, although as I understand this was a dramatic decrease.

Rotom primarilly outclassed all of the bulky ghosts; if you want an offensive sweeper most people still (as the stats prove) turn to gengar and it's 24 greater base speed and 25 greater base special attack.

Rats, my earlier post shows you what I know for being a Wifi "purist". . .

(Boo Smogon for not putting the Platinum-exclusive Pokemon analyses on the main site)

Thanks for correcting me. Better Speed and Special Attack would help Gengar's case drastically. Dusknoir, for the record, is still the bulky Ghost of choice on Wifi, though he does have the niches of being physically oriented and possessing Gravity even when Rotom is present.

[mtr]

Shadow Sneak is also a huge factor, Sucker Punch less so, but still pretty cool. At least that's why I use Dusknoir: priority is powerful.

Gengar is still very powerful, but from reading RMT's, more and more are running Sub and maybe HP Fire, just to protect themselves from Pursuit traps the likes of which Weavile and Tyranitar could never have imagined, fearing focus blast.

[Veedrock]

A lot of the Subs are specifically for Scizor, not Tyranitar or Weavile (Tyranitar is slow, Weavile is rare). If you predict wrong you either die to Pursuit or Bullet Punch, and sub eases that and makes Gengar a lot more useful. HP-Fire is also for dealing with Scizor quickly, though usually if it's choiced you can hit it with Thunderbolt/Focus Blast while it Pursuits or BPs, then you either finish it or switch from there based on what it does.

I'm shocked to see Breloom climbed into Top 20, while Heracross plunged in the 40s. Watch Heracross make UU before Donphan -.-

|   22 | Breloom    |  36018 |    8.33 |  <- February
|   18 | Breloom    |  44903 |    9.18 |  <- March
 
|   36 | Heracross  |  23659 |    5.47 | <- February
|   41 | Heracross  |  24449 |    5.00 | <- March

Originally Posted by Fat Thorns

The advance trio are ruling Ubers again. What a shame. 71 usages of Exeggutor? That's lower than Luxray! Let's boost that a bit. And guys, don't run Solarbeam, Grass Knot is better.

Tangrowth is where it's really at.


And oh crap, it's May already @_@ New stats soon. Donphan better fall...

[mtr]

| Blissey | 1. Salamence | 18880 | 24.65 | 1 | 22.95 | 2 | +1 |
| Blissey | 2. Skarmory | 18298 | 23.89 | 2 | 8.17 | 21 | +19 |
| Blissey | 15. Hippowdon | 8572 | 11.19 | 15 | 5.32 | 36 | +21 |

What can a Blissey possibly want with a Salamence? It's stuff like this that's why some people call it Platifail. You'd at least expect Blissey's top partner to be Skarmory, but Salamence? Even more surprising is that Hippowdon's pairing with Skarmory was 36th last month! It's downright odd.

| Tentacruel | Usage | 26538 | 5.4 |
| Forretress | Usage | 28608 | 5.8 |

Looks like the two premier Toxic Spikers + Spinners are neck and neck. I bet all stall UU players curse Obi for making Tentacruel OU with his team.

I agree with Veedrock, send Donphan to the abyss.

Originally Posted by Fat Veedrock

A lot of the Subs are specifically for Scizor, not Tyranitar or Weavile (Tyranitar is slow, Weavile is rare). If you predict wrong you either die to Pursuit or Bullet Punch, and sub eases that and makes Gengar a lot more useful. HP-Fire is also for dealing with Scizor quickly, though usually if it's choiced you can hit it with Thunderbolt/Focus Blast while it Pursuits or BPs, then you either finish it or switch from there based on what it does.

That's actually what I meant to say: that Weavile and Tyranitar couldn't have imagined switching into Gengar and trapping it with impunity like Scizor could.